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Meetings/Status Meeting 2006-05-30/transcript

Şuraya atla: kullan, ara


18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
18:00 @<henne> Some technicalities:
18:00 @<henne> This channel is moderated during the time of the session.
18:00 @<henne> But it has +z set so the operator (but nobody else) can see what youre writing. So if you have a question or remark just write it.
18:00 @<henne> The moderator then will give you a voice and you can repeat your question for everyone.
18:00 @<henne> The topics of this meeting are:
18:00 @<henne> * 1 Status SUSE Linux 10.1
18:01 @<henne> * 2 Status build service
18:01 @<henne> * 3 Lizard pictures for SUSE Linux 10.2
18:01 @<henne> * 4 Q/A Session

Status SUSE Linux 10.1

18:01 @<henne> ok lets start with the first topic. AJaeger?
18:01 +<AJaeger> Yes, I'm here.
18:01 +<AJaeger> Ok, I start with comments on - a couple of questions where asked that I like to answer.
18:02 +<AJaeger> Q: "SUSE has for the first time been shipped with a major bug (The updater and package installer won't work)."
18:02 +<AJaeger> A couple of comments:
18:02 +<AJaeger> * "yast2 online_update" works fine
18:02 +<AJaeger> * The developers are working hard on fixing all known issues, first test packages are available and we're fixing one more bug before they go out.
18:02 +<AJaeger> * We will release further updates as needed.
18:02 +<AJaeger> * We will announce these updates on the web site once they are released.
18:03 +<AJaeger> * We have most of the issues fixed, so I hope to have another update this week and then soon the final patch.
18:03 +<AJaeger> Q: "The update system does not currently support deltarpms."
18:03 +<AJaeger> Yes, that's correct - and really unfortunate.  We will release a patch for this once we have it fixed.  It might not be ready in time for the next kernel update -
                 but it's the first "feature" that we will add to the our update system once all critical bugs are fixed.
18:04  * henne has a question
18:04 +<AJaeger> Adding deltarpms has a high risk and needs proper testing and therefore we have delayed it.  We really like to put only well-tested stuff out now.
18:04 +<AJaeger> henne: Go ahead.
18:04 @<henne> does the update you talk about include zmd performance enhancements? especially meta-data parsing only once?
18:05 +<AJaeger> henne: our updates include a couple of bug fixes that make the system faster but performance is the next feature we have to fix. Currently parsing meta-data happens twice:
18:05 +<AJaeger> * First when you download meta-data from the repository - and this will always happen.
18:06 +<AJaeger> * Second: Every time zmd is restarted or wakes up.  We plan to make this step especially much faster.
18:06 +<AJaeger> The idea is to preparse the downloaded meta data so that wake/restart can be done fast.
18:07 @<henne> okay
18:07 @<henne> Beineri has a question too
18:07 +<Beineri> AJaeger: will support for patch.rpms be reintroduced (first)?
18:07 +<AJaeger> There are also some ideas on speeding up the parsing itself but those are not easy to do.  Parsing less is a first step.
18:08 +<AJaeger> libzypp is in C++ - adding delta RPM support might be just another class like patch RPM.  AFAIK if you have one, the other is quite easy.  So, we'll get both at the same time.
18:08 +<AJaeger> I asked the developer the same question to have something earlier ;-)
18:08 +<AJaeger> Further questions on the update stack/libzypp?
18:09 +<houghi> Is any more feedback needed?
18:09 +<AJaeger> houghi: Feedback for what? For the discussion?
18:10 +<houghi> Yes. For the discussion. If not (for now) we can close that subject on factory
18:10 +<AJaeger> Let's continue the discussion on opensuse-factory.
18:10 +<AJaeger> I forgot, there's one more libzypp question on the website:
18:10 +<AJaeger> Q: "Will the current package management design (having zypp and zmd, and they sync with each other) be kept for 10.2?"
18:11 +<AJaeger> As just mentioned to houghi: We just started a discussion about this on the opensuse-factory mailing list - let's see what the developers say.  The syncing is IMO as well a hack.
18:11 +<AJaeger> We need to do some design before developing for 10.2 - and first fix the bugs.
18:11 @<henne> okay anymore question about this topic?
18:12 +<AJaeger> I move on with the other questions - both for the deskops:
18:12 +<AJaeger> Q: "Around the time that 10.2 will be released, Vista will be released to. There is no question about they two will be compared. Which points does the team tend to fixate on
                 to win the battle? Will 10.2 be more graphical or a more backend enchangement?"
18:12 +<AJaeger> Let's see when Vista will be final.  We didn't do a good job with 10.1 and I hope 10.2 will be in time...
18:13 +<AJaeger> We've already done a lot of with SUSE Linux 10.1.  I see our teams continue the work - but I see primarily the communities working on the
18:13 +<AJaeger> GNOME and KDE desktops to push forward - and Novell's developers working as part of the community.
18:14 +<AJaeger> It's some time until KDE 4, so we will have with KDE 3.5.x a real stable desktop in 10.2.  GNOME 2.16 is on the roadmap for 10.2 which is a new release and
                 let's see what the teams will do there.
18:15 +<AJaeger> The desktop developers at Novell have done a great job for 10.1 - and some of them need to take a step back and see whether those changes are beneficial to the users and
                 how to continue.
18:15 +<the_dude> speaking of gnome, when will see a 2.14.x release?
18:16 +<AJaeger> 2.14.x had a bad timing - or 10.1 had a bad timing ;-).
18:16 +<the_dude> or will we wait for 10.2 and 2.16.x?
18:16 @<henne> adrianS: do you want to say something about supplementary?
18:16 +<AJaeger> I expect that the GNOME developers will package 2.14 using our openSUSE build service and make it available as on optional update.
18:16 +<the_dude> fair enough
18:17 +<AJaeger> 10.2 will have 2.16.x - and Novell will not officially support 2.14.  But I hope we can have the first 2.16 betas in our build server and get good testing of the packages.
18:17 +<jpr> we'll definitely move to 2.16 for 10.2
18:17 +<adrianS> AJaeger: yes, Stanislav will work on this
18:17 +<the_dude> ok
18:17 +<AJaeger> jpr: Glad to hear this confirmed ;-)
18:17 +<jpr> we'll probably put 2.15.x in to factory sometime around the end of june
18:17 +<jpr> and follow the unstable tree
18:18 @<henne> ok. anything else on the topic of 10.1?
18:18 +<jpr> i'm not sure we'll do 2.14 yet
18:18 +<AJaeger> henne: One more question I have to answer
18:18 +<AJaeger> Q: From what I hear from messenger-contacts, Xgl is a huge magnet.
18:19 +<AJaeger> Yes, Xgl is really a huge success and I'm overwhelmed by the positive feedback!  I'm not sure how the KDE guys will integrate it better into KDE 3.5.x,
                 so let's ask Beineri whether he can comment on it.
18:19 +<AJaeger> I think that GNOME integration will continue.
18:19 +<adrianS> AJaeger: XGl integration does not depend on KDE 4 at least
18:20 +<AJaeger> We will release in a couple of weeks an update of the xgl packages for 10.1, David has done lots of fixes - thanks for all the testing and feedback!
18:20 +<AJaeger> Are there any other questions on 10.1?
18:20 +<Beineri> there are no concrete plans for anything 10.2 related yet afaik :-), if the community does it the better :-)
18:22 +<mmj> AJaeger: What's the status of working more toward making compiz a better standalone windowmanager for people who want to run just Xgl and that one?
18:22 +<AJaeger> mmj: I cannot answer that. JPR, can you?
18:23 +<jpr> somewhat
18:23 +<jpr> it depends whats meant as standalone
18:23 +<jpr> compiz employs a plugin system for everything including configuration
18:24 +<mmj> jpr: sure. But I think of features like for instance only maximizing horizontally, window deco etc.?
18:24 +<mmj> jpr: or is it going to be kept hardly couple with gnome?
18:24 +<mmj> coupled even
18:24 +<jpr> the window decorator is a separate process, and there is a kde-window-decorator
18:24 +<jpr> upstream (but i don't know how well it works)
18:24 +<mmj> and a gnome-window-decorator
18:25 +<jpr> yes
18:25 +<jpr> the window stuff is all done by hints
18:25 +<jpr> and in fact we just added maximizing horizontally
18:25 +<mmj> jpr: ah, nice
18:25 +<skh> could the detailed feature discussions maybe go to opensuse-factory?
18:25 +<jpr> (and vertically, and toggle max)
18:25 @<henne> yes please
18:26 +<mmj> yes
18:26 +<the_dude> right, is there a discussion forum for xgl issues?
18:26 +<jpr> to answer the orginal question then
18:26 +<jpr> compiz is architected to be "standalone"
18:26 +<jpr> but it is mostly integrated with gnome atm
18:26 +<mmj> jpr: cool, thanks
18:26 +<jpr> in terms of config, automatic setup
18:26 @<henne> so peepz, anything else on 10.1?
18:27 +<jpr> the_dude: there is a mailing list at fdo
18:27 +<the_dude> ok
18:27 +<cb400f> would somebody's feelings be hurt if a wikipage was set up about issues in 10.1
18:28 @<henne> nope
18:28 +<cb400f> like.. considering Smart, howto get atheros, rt2500, disabling beagle
18:28 @<henne> please go ahead
18:28 +<AJaeger> cb400f: If you don't trash us with the page, go ahead ;-)
18:29 +<cb400f> maybe telling people that they might have a lilltle trouble with 10.1
18:29 +<cb400f> AJaeger: I would never do that :)
18:29 @<henne> just tell them whats to consider and then let them make their own mind up :)
18:29 +<AJaeger> cb400f: Glad to hear.
18:30 +<AJaeger> henne: I agree. 10.1 is a great distro - with at least one rough edge - the packager and let'S talk openly about it.
18:30 +<_Marcus_> cb400f: you mean like the  page
18:30 @<henne> sure. im mr. talk openly :)
18:30 +<_Marcus_> and the missing Atheros, RT, NVidia drivers
18:31 +<cb400f> _Marcus_: right.. that's pretty much it.. maybe expand that one a bit
18:31 +<Beineri> and
18:32 @<henne> go ahead. stop asking. if people dont like it they will change it :)
18:32 @<henne> ok that was it for 10.1?
18:32 +<Beineri> what about the Live DVD?
18:33 @<henne> what about it?
18:33 +<AJaeger> Beineri: We're still working on it, we just added some more languages and now it does not boot :-(
18:33 +<AJaeger> Beineri: I can give you tomorrow a test DVD and if that one works, we'll release it ;-)
18:34 +<houghi> Will the live DVD ever become an installable one?
18:34 +<AJaeger> houghi: We don't plan that.
18:35 +<houghi> Any reason not to do it?
18:35 +<cthiel> that's what the promo dvd already offers -- that's the DVD we are handing out on fairs...
18:35 +<AJaeger> the promo DVD is a liveDVD plus an installable one.
18:35 @<henne> houghi: it would be an ugly hack instead of a nice installing experience? :)
18:36 +<AJaeger> There are people doing a install CD and then copy it over as basis for an installation - and we're not doing that.
18:37 +<houghi> Pity that people have to download twice.
18:38 @<henne> arent there some livedvd scripts out?
18:38 @<henne> okay lets discuss this on factory
18:38 +<mls> Maybe we could create a special delta iso.
18:38 @<henne> anything else on the topic of SUSE Linux 10.1?

Status BuildService

18:39 @<henne> not? ok lets do the next topic then: Status build service
18:39 @<henne> whos going to do that. adrianS?
18:39 +<adrianS> The build service is still in its alpha phase, but we do use it for producing our supplementarry updates from now on. This means
18:39 +<adrianS> we do run it already in production mode from the point of the
18:39 +<adrianS> end-user. This is big step for us and we will announce that
18:40 +<adrianS> soon.
18:40 +<adrianS> Interessting projects which get build there currently are
18:40 +<adrianS>  * KDE:KDE3 (contains already 3.5.3)
18:40 +<adrianS>  * KDE:Backports (contains updated KDE apps without the need to update also the complete KDE (big advantage))
18:40 +<adrianS>  * OSCAR cluster software
18:40 +<adrianS>  * groupware software (Kolab, OX, eGroupWare)
18:40 +<adrianS>  * Apache + php
18:40 +<adrianS>  * Kernel
18:40 +<adrianS>  * lots more
18:40 +<adrianS> supplementarry dirs for KDE and misc got removed on already.
18:40 +<adrianS> Gnome will follow.
18:40 +<adrianS> "Daily" updates get logged on from today on.
18:40 +<adrianS> Ah, and we will get more hardware this week ;)
18:41 +<adrianS> We just want to wait to announce it, because KDE 3.5.3 should not be public yet, but we do lack the "sync later" option in BS atm ;)
18:41 +<adrianS> any questions around that ?
18:42 @<henne> not?
18:42 @<henne> adrianS: do you have more?
18:42 +<adrianS> henne: nope
18:42 +<houghi> We can only start realy asking when we have access.
18:43 @<henne> you mean login for everybody?
18:43 +<adrianS> houghi: write a mail to, if you want access
18:43 +<Beineri> houghi: as user? as developer?
18:43 +<darix> houghi: you can already download packages as an user.
18:43 +<Beineri> describes how to use the build service as user
18:43 +<darix> houghi: you only need access for packaging
18:44 +<houghi> OK. Thanks.
18:44 +<adrianS> houghi: we do not give out accounts for everbody yet, but you quailify for sure
18:44 +<darix> i have just started packaging ruby on rails. i will rename the packages later today. but than those should be ready to use.
18:45 @<henne> okay anymore questions for the buildservice?
18:45 +<the_dude> one more
18:45 @<henne> shoot
18:45 +<the_dude> how do we contact maintainers of applications?
18:45 +<the_dude> i'd like to talk to the oscar person
18:45 +<the_dude> since they are likely down the hall from me
18:46 +<darix> the_dude: he mailed on the buildservice ml. but you can always join #opensuse-buildservice
18:46 +<the_dude> ok
18:46 +<the_dude> thanks
18:46 @<henne> is there nothing in the rpm? like Packager or changelog entrys?
18:46 +<darix> he hangs around there as bernardli normally
18:47 @<henne> okay then on to the next topic

Lizard pictures for SUSE Linux 10.2

18:47 @<henne> Lizard pictures for SUSE Linux 10.2
18:47 +<adrianS> henne: you can currently only see the iChain account name atm
18:47 +<michl> We have our first Alpha around the 15th of June and now need a codename and picture. Â The codename will be again some kind of lizard - therefore,
               if you have a nice photo of a lizard and can name the lizard, please contact myself ( and Adrian ( - and add something to
18:48 @<henne> will you announce this on the mailinglist too?
18:48 +<adrianS> and Andreas Jaeger <> , I am only his fallback
18:49 +<michl> I'll announce it there as well
18:49 @<henne> ok so we are done with that topic?
18:50 +<michl> yep

Q/A Session

18:50 @<henne> as we did the Q/A session at the beginning we dont have anything left
18:50 @<henne> or is there some topic you would like to have discussed?
18:51 +<houghi> Something completely different: When will be rebuild?
18:51 @<henne> rebuild?
18:51 +<houghi> Well, the layout ans such.
18:51 @<henne> when someone does it...
18:52 +<adrianS> darix tries to find out, if we can enable user skins
18:52 +<adrianS> so everybody can create own skins and demonstrate what he wants look alike
18:52 +<adrianS> and we can switch later easily
18:53 +<darix> adrianS: i think you expect too much
18:53 @<henne> this is actually not what we need to change
18:53 +<darix> they can only change CSS
18:53 +<darix> houghi: and if you refer to the start page
18:53 +<darix> you can always create a 2nd page
18:53 +<darix> which shows your proposed layout in the wiki
18:53 +<darix> and maybe we can just move it to the start page if everyone agrees
18:53 @<henne> the point is stop discussing it and do it
18:54 +<darix> indeed
18:54 @<henne> otherwise it will never happen
18:54 +<darix> i am sick of discussing it over and over again
18:54 +<houghi> Indeed. Proposals and such have been done.
18:55 @<henne> cboltz had a question
18:55 @<henne> Will the slides from LinuxTag be published on
18:55 @<henne> skh?
18:56 @<henne> adrianS?
18:56 +<adrianS> we can do so
18:56 @<henne> please do
18:56 +<adrianS> henne, please take it as an AI for someone, in doubt for me ....
18:56 @<henne> skh: do you want it?
18:56 +<skh> yes
18:56 @<henne> okay
18:56 +<skh> everybody send their slides to me please
18:57 @<henne> Action Item skh: publish the linuxtag slides on the wiki
18:57 @<henne> okay jdanield had a question too
18:57 @<henne> <jdanield> do we have any jigdo download?
18:58 +<adrianS> no, we decided against it so far, since the jigdo files would be hughe
18:58 +<adrianS> since the noarch packages are different on i386 and x86_64 atm
18:58 +<adrianS> another thing which will improve with the build service ;)
18:58 +<adrianS> and we do anyway offer DVD isos now
18:58 @<henne> k
18:59 @<henne> skh: #179950
18:59 +<skh> henne: thanks
18:59 @<henne> anything else or can we close this meeting?
18:59 @<henne> okay then lets call it a day
19:00 @<henne> thank you all for participating
19:00 +<houghi> Thanks for having us
19:00 @<henne> the next meeting will take place 14th f june
19:00 @<henne> right?
19:00 +<Beineri> wednesday?
19:00 @<henne> no 13th
19:00 +<adrianS> 13th ?
19:00 @<henne> sorry
19:00 @<henne> okay have fun until then :)
--- Log closed Di Mai 30 19:00:02 2006