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This is the transcript of the 2006-01-24-status-meeting.
--- Log opened Tue Jan 24 18:00:20 2006 18:00 @<henne> ok 18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting! 18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE. 18:00 @<henne> Some technicality's: 18:00 @<henne> This channel is moderated during the time of the meeting. 18:00 @<henne> But it has relaxed moderation set so the operator (henne) can see what youre writing. So if you have a question or remark 18:01 @<henne> just write it. henne will give you a voice and you can repeat your question for everyone. 18:01 @<henne> The topics of this meeting are: 18:01 @<henne> o General overview 18:01 @<henne> o Mailinglist migration 18:01 @<henne> o FOSDEM overview 18:01 @<henne> o Build Services status 18:01 @<henne> o Bugzilla voting 18:01 @<henne> o SDB import 18:01 @<henne> o Internationalized wikis 18:01 @<henne> o Official forum 18:01 @<henne> o Doc server 18:01 @<henne> o Better wiki search 18:01 @<henne> o 'openSUSE'<->'SUSE Linux' confusion, future naming of "OSS" & "Eval" products 18:01 @<henne> general overview i just did :)
18:02 @<henne> so lets go on with mailinglist migration 18:02 @<henne> oh thats me too 18:02 @<henne> alright 18:02 @<henne> we are moving away from ezmlm and qmail on lists.opensuse.org 18:03 @<henne> to mlmmj and postfix 18:03 @<henne> that gives us the chance to change some things 18:03 @<henne> and while we are doing that we will migrate some SUSE internal mailinglists to opensuse.org 18:03 @<henne> we saw that for the past 5 months we changed a lot except the way suse developers communicated 18:04 @<henne> so were going to change that 18:05 @<henne> ok let me sort the questions 18:05 +<houghi> Better question: Is there a webinterface for mlmmj like mailman has for subscribe and unsubscribe? 18:05 @<henne> houghi: repeat your question 18:05 @<henne> houghi: there is a webinterface to manage it yes 18:05 @<henne> houghi: but i dont think we will enable this 18:06 +<houghi> Why not? 18:06 * henne waitet for that question 8) 18:06 @<henne> well first the webinterface is very basic and as far as i know it does not allow user interaction 18:07 @<henne> its only for the list admin 18:07 @<henne> and secondly i dont think its needed 18:07 +<skh> henne: please let me know your timeline, I would like to help with internal communication of this change. 18:07 @<henne> houghi: does that answer your question? 18:08 +<houghi> Yes, it does (althogh I would rather ghave seen it differently) 18:08 @<henne> skh: well timeframe 18:09 +<cthiel> henne: you might want to take that discussion to the mlmmj list, as this might help to create/improve a user-webinterface for mlmmj 18:09 @<henne> i have to coordinate with our sysadmins 18:09 @<henne> cthiel: good idea 18:09 +<cthiel> s/henne/houghi/ 18:09 @<henne> skh: the box is ready 18:09 @<henne> skh: we just need to put it into the DMZ and then we can start hosting lists there 18:10 @<henne> skh: so my best guess is end of this week 18:10 +<skh> henne: so we should warn people ;-) 18:10 @<henne> hm 18:10 @<henne> no not really. they shouldnt note the difference 18:10 @<henne> or do you mean migratet suse people? 18:10 +<skh> henne: suse people 18:10 +<skh> it is a major change how we work, after all 18:11 @<henne> yes sure 18:11 +<AJaeger> henne_log: Start with one mailing list for stress testing? 18:11 @<henne> AJaeger: stress testing is not needed 18:11 +<skh> so let's talk to them now. I didn't know how far you're with the box, but when it's ready now, I'll prepare some announcement 18:11 @<henne> AJaeger: mlmmj is pounded on by gentoo already :) 18:11 @<henne> skh: ok 18:12 +<skh> we should allow for a few days of internal discussion to answer questions. 18:12 +<skh> thanks. 18:12 +<darix> AJaeger: mlmmj drives all lists at gentoo.org 18:12 @<henne> Actin Item skh/henne: prepare some announcement for list migration 18:12 @<henne> all the people that asked for list setup details 18:12 @<henne> like list headers or stuff like that 18:12 +<skh> henne: is the question where to send stuff that can't go public resolved? 18:13 @<henne> we will make this transition as easy as possible. so yes mostly all headers will stay the same 18:13 @<henne> skh: no not yet 18:13 +<skh> (please understand, these were internal lists. we will continue to have non-public topics) 18:13 +<AJaeger> henne_log: So, my procmailrc should continue to work? 18:13 +<skh> henne: so what are the next steps there? 18:14 @<henne> AJaeger: exactly. you as a user of a list shouldnt notice anything 18:14 @<henne> skh: we have to make a risk assessment per list 18:14 @<henne> skh: so i will do one for packagers 18:14 @<henne> (our internal packager mailinglist) 18:14 +<skh> henne: I could help... 18:15 @<henne> skh: ok 18:15 @<henne> Action Item skh/henne: risk assesment for packagers 18:15 @<henne> the_dude: please repeat your question 18:15 +<the_dude> will we have searchable maillist archives? 18:16 @<henne> i hate you :) 18:16 +<the_dude> :) 18:16 @<henne> probably not. we still will use hypermail 18:16 +<the_dude> i take that as a no 18:16 +<the_dude> sigh 18:16 @<henne> maybe we get a google box 18:16 @<henne> adrianS: didnt you say something like that? 18:17 +<the_dude> what about moderation for larger volume lists? 18:17 +<darix> henne: i have some other suggestions for mailing list archives 18:17 +<darix> but i would like to show them to you first 18:17 +<adrianS> I would like to check again when IS&T wants to move the ml servers to provo before we invest too much here 18:17 @<henne> the_dude: uh 18:17 @<henne> adrianS: what? 18:18 +<the_dude> lol 18:18 +<skh> henne: I think adrian meant work on the archives, not on the migration itself 18:18 +<adrianS> yes 18:18 @<henne> the_dude: define moderation. like moderating each message? 18:18 @<henne> ah ok 18:18 +<skh> henne: all is good ;-) 18:18 +<the_dude> yes, the thread digress into ranting and non suse related bs 18:18 +<the_dude> makes the lists useless at time 18:18 @<henne> Action Item adrianS: check again when IS&T wants to move the ml servers to provo for the archives 18:19 @<henne> the_dude: phew. we should take that to the list 18:19 +<the_dude> fine 18:19 @<henne> ok can we stop discussion about mailinglists now and move on? 18:19 +<the_dude> yes 18:19 +<skh> +1 18:19 @<henne> alright :)
18:19 @<henne> next topic: FOSDEM overview 18:20 @<henne> michl: thats your part 18:20 +<cthiel> henne: that's something for me... 18:20 +<cthiel> As most of you guys already know, we & the openSUSE project will be 18:20 +<cthiel> participating at FOSDEM with an openSUSE 'DevRoom' (Developer Room) and a 18:20 +<cthiel> small booth. 18:20 +<cthiel> ... 18:20 +<cthiel> The sixth Free and Open source Software Developers' European Meeting 18:20 +<cthiel> (commonly known as FOSDEM  (http://www.fosdem.org/)) will take place 18:20 +<cthiel> during the last week-end (25&26) of February 2006 in the city of Brussels, 18:20 +<cthiel> Belgium. It's an annual 2-day event hosting talks, tutorials, and booth for 18:20 +<cthiel> the free software/open source community. It is organized by volunteers at 18:20 +<cthiel> the UniversitÃ© Libre de Bruxelles in Belgium. Access to all parts of FOSDEM 18:20 +<cthiel> is free of charge (but donations and sponsors are welcome to help fund the 18:20 +<cthiel> event). 18:20 +<cthiel> For the preliminary schedule please visit http://www.opensuse.org/FOSDEM 18:20 +<cthiel> To get further details on FOSDEM, please refer to http://www.fosdem.org/ 18:20 +<cthiel> We are all looking forward to seeing you at FOSDEM! 18:20 +<cthiel> Are there any questions regarding openSUSE @ FOSDEM? 18:20 @<henne> yes i have one 18:21 +<cthiel> go ahead 18:21 @<henne> what could we all do better next time so not only suse staff is talking? 18:21 @<henne> is there anything we could have done better? 18:22 +<cthiel> henne: that's a great questions, let's open it up for comments! 18:22 +<houghi> henne: Perhaps wait for evaluation of this year and see who is willing to do what. openSUSE is still very young. 18:22 +<yaloki> as I already stated on the mailing-list, I think it's pretty normal that talks are exclusively from SUSE staff for this first time. the community involvement is just starting. 18:22 @<henne> so nothing. 18:22 @<henne> cool : 18:22 @<henne> ) 18:23 +<yaloki> next year will hopefully be very different, but there wasn't really something else to expect for this one 18:23 +<cthiel> henne: let's put up an action item to evaluate our FOSDEM participation in one of the next meetings... 18:23 +<skh> I'd also say give people a chance to work out how they can contribute when we actually allow them to and then ask again. 18:23 +<dirk> henne: perhaps asking for tops for the status meeting from the community for the next meeting 18:23 @<henne> dirk: what? 18:23 +<skh> dirk: talk on FOSDEM was the question 18:23 @<henne> yeah 18:23 +<skh> dirk; not here. 18:24 @<henne> Action Item cthiel/yaloki: evaluate our FOSDEM participation after FOSDEM 18:24 @<henne> ok 18:24 @<henne> next topic? 18:24 @<henne> no 18:24 +<yaloki> no other questions? 18:24 +<cthiel> henne: sure, if there are no more questions... let's go.. 18:25 @<henne> cboltz: please again 18:25 +<cboltz> I asked for recording the FOSDEM talks (audio/video) some time ago to make them available for people that can't take part. Is this sure now? 18:25 +<cthiel> cboltz: we will try to do at least audio recording of the talks... 18:25 @<henne> cthiel? 18:25 @<henne> ok 18:26 @<henne> ok next topic
Build Service status
18:26 @<henne> o Build Services status 18:26 @<henne> mls_: hows the backend comming? :) 18:26 +<adrianS> let me paste a short overview first 18:26 +<adrianS> We do work on the public build service atm with two teams. 18:26 +<adrianS> One team is working on the frontend and one on the backend. 18:26 +<adrianS> An overview can get found here: http://www.opensuse.org/Build_Service_Team 18:26 +<adrianS> Some hardware should be in place, so it should be browsable (read-only) 18:26 +<adrianS> at that time. The plan is to open some accounts for people how are asking 18:26 +<adrianS> for an account. But we may are not be able to make it really public at 18:26 +<adrianS> that point of time, because not all hardware will be in place. 18:26 +<adrianS> The build service should be able to build addon packages for various 18:26 +<adrianS> distributions at that point of time. But we will not be able to host 18:26 +<adrianS> distribution core packages. That will be the next step. 18:26 +<adrianS> "at that time" means at FOSDEM ;) 18:27 +<mls_> My status: dependency expansion works, new specfile parsing is almost done. 18:27 @<henne> mls_: could you elaborate on dependency expansion? 18:28 @<henne> tell what you did :) 18:28 @<henne> mls_? 18:28 +<cthiel> henne: ... typing. 18:28 +<mls_> Well, you probably all now that currently the build environment is setup by looking at a "neededforbuild" line. 18:29 +<mls_> In the old days you had to put all packages in it that were needed for the build 18:30 @<henne> yes we know :) 18:30 +<mls_> now, the system also pulls in all packages that are needed to make the specified packages work, i.e. it looks at the Requires of the packages and checks what packages provide them 18:30 +<mls_> There's also a blacklist to remove dependencies that are not needed for building 18:31 +<mls_> We want to keep the number of packages as small as possible. 18:31 +<yaloki> good! (was one of my personal gripes about neededforbuild) :) 18:31 +<mls_> Next step is the migration from neededforbuild to BuildRequires. 18:31 @<henne> cool 18:32 +<Riggwelter> does the new system generate the neededforbuild lines automagically? That's how it sounds 18:32 +<mls_> The main advantage will be that you can use all the normal rpm %if statements, so you can have arch/project dependent BuildRequires. 18:32 +<darix> Riggwelter: neededforbuild is dead 18:32 +<yaloki> mls_: excellent 18:32 +<Riggwelter> s/neededforbuild/BuildRequires :) 18:32 @<henne> mls_: any ETA on the new build tool? 18:32 +<mls_> Well, you still have to specify some needed packages, but the list is much smaller. 18:32 @<henne> codename uberbuild ;) 18:33 +<Riggwelter> rock hard! 18:33 +<darix> Riggwelter: no. it will only generate the list what needs to be installed at buildtime. 18:33 +<skh> Riggwelter; you only need to name packages you need, not the dependencies of those. 18:33 +<mls_> I have a script that calculates the minimal requires, we'll run it on all of our packages. 18:33 +<skh> which can be a PITA, so this is cool. 18:33 * Riggwelter smiles 18:33 +<yaloki> so basically, it is computing the transient dependencies, right ? 18:34 +<yaloki> i.e. those that are not directly referenced but needed anyway 18:34 +<mls_> Yes, more or less. Yes, y2pm already did that, but we now have a blacklist and some other ways of influencing which package gets used. 18:34 +<bill-barriere> but am not sure i understand what this does quite right cant y2pmbuild alredy calculate all those 18:34 +<mls_> And the really new part is the specfile parsing. 18:35 @<henne> bill-barriere: not all of it. it cant parse the specfile right 18:35 @<henne> bill-barriere: like %if's around BuildRequires etc. 18:35 +<yaloki> mls_: is there some possibility of having that spec-parsing part as a standalone tool/lib/something ? that would be highly interesting to write other tools 18:35 +<mls_> And y2pmbuild doesn't produce so many error messages ;-) 18:36 +<mls_> It'll be part of an autobuild perl module, so yes, other tools may also use it. 18:36 +<bill-barriere> yeah of course if i can use that thing on my server too that be just great 18:36 @<henne> ok 18:36 +<yaloki> ok, thanks 18:37 @<henne> schiele: please again 18:37 +<schiele> Is it now definitive that the build server code will go fully open source? 18:37 +<yaloki> question: any progress/information on the "opensourceness" of the build system ? 18:37 +<skh> ;-) 18:37 +<yaloki> oh, lol 18:37 +<mls_> But be warned: it is trimmed for speed, it's not a full parser. Only rpm can parse specfiles correctly... 18:37 +<skh> adrian: you or me? 18:37 @<henne> heh. 2 idiots one thought 18:37 +<adrianS> schiele: we need a final approval for that 18:37 +<Riggwelter> I have to run in a short time, so can I just ask something else on the topic of the build services? 18:37 +<adrianS> schiele: we are in good hope, but we can't promise it yet 18:37 +<adrianS> schiele: the frontends (including the web frontend) will be open source for sure 18:38 @<henne> Riggwelter: sure shoot 18:38 +<Riggwelter> Thanks. Will the build services mean that we third-party packagers can use the servers to build on architectures we have no physical access to? 18:38 +<mls_> All the stuff I talked about is also used in the "build" package, so they will be open source. 18:38 +<yaloki> Riggwelter: yes 18:38 +<skh> Riggwelter: that's one of the main features, yes 18:38 +<adrianS> Riggwelter: yes, but that does not depend on that question ;) 18:38 +<Riggwelter> adrianS: lol :) 18:38 +<schiele> Why did you decide to open the build server code only when you have completed the first version? Wouldn't it have been a smarter move to open in an eraly (incomplete) state to have external people better involved? Instead of this one-way "wait what we have done behind the curtain until we show". 18:38 +<adrianS> Riggwelter: however, we will only have x86 and x86_64 in the next month 18:39 +<skh> schiele: there will be enough to do, believe me 18:39 +<skh> it's not that we'll be feature complete on fosdem 18:39 +<bill-barriere> schiele, novell got corporate view 18:39 @<henne> ok next topic? 18:39 +<adrianS> schiele: a Novell comite needs to approve that we are allowed to open source it 18:40 +<schiele> Ok, but the parts that are already clear to be open sourced. 18:40 +<Riggwelter> adrianS: that's still one more arch than I have ;) (but why no S/390?) 18:40 +<yaloki> Riggwelter: you don't want that lol 18:40 +<darix> Riggwelter: noone wants gnome on that 18:40 +<Riggwelter> darix: lol :) 18:40 +<AJaeger> darix: Neither KDE ;-) 18:40 +<adrianS> Riggwelter: we do not have that many s390 build power either 18:41 @<henne> stop chatting please 18:41 +<Riggwelter> anyway, got to run, enjoy the rest of the meeting guys 18:41 +<cthiel> henne: next topic? 18:41 +<adrianS> Riggwelter: but we will discuss that with IBM later, I suppose 18:41 @<henne> cthiel: no 18:41 @<henne> question from CzP 18:41 * adrianS knows koffice bugreports for s390 ... 18:42 @<henne> CzP: please repeat your question for everyone 18:42 +<CzP> Will you have PPC support on the build servers later on? 18:42 +<CzP> If yes, when? 18:42 +<adrianS> CzP: it is on our roadmap, but I can't guarantee this and I can't tell you a date yet 18:43 +<adrianS> not in the next 4 month, I think 18:43 @<henne> CzP: does that answer your question? 18:43 +<mls_> It's only a hardware issue... 18:43 +<CzP> Yes. 18:43 +<yaloki> ppc would be highly desired though 18:43 +<AJaeger> CzP: For each architecture, we need build machines and disk space... 18:44 +<CzP> If hw issue, I'll try to get machines... 18:45 +<cboltz> What about building not-so-legal packages like MPlayer or xine? 18:45 @<henne> ok 18:45 @<henne> question from soeren 18:45 +<yaloki> but basically this doesn't void my point about having a distributed build architecture, so maybe we could discuss this anyway (e.g. @FOSDEM) 18:45 +<soeren> will there be some security-check for the packages built, to ensure the trustworthy of the packages? Maybe a rating system or so..? 18:45 +<cthiel> yaloki: good point! 18:45 +<adrianS> CzP: can we discuss that via PM ? 18:46 +<adrianS> CzP: could you mail me your address to firstname.lastname@example.org please ? 18:46 +<skh> soeren: yes, we have already thought about this. 18:46 @<henne> oh 18:46 +<crispin_> I have done a lot of research in rating the trust-worthyness of software in a project called Sardonix 18:46 +<adrianS> cboltz: we need to remove them, when they appear 18:47 +<crispin_> creating an AppArmor profile for an application makes it much easier to trust :) 18:47 +<skh> soeren: actually, the only thing we can assure is that the binary rpms are built from the source that's on the server. 18:47 +<skh> soeren: because we can't and don't want to check submissions manually 18:47 +<skh> soeren: more trust may come from a trust system between packagers 18:47 @<henne> that would be a cool thing to sort out at FOSDEM 18:47 +<skh> soeren: and from a rating system. 18:47 +<skh> henne: ok. 18:47 +<adrianS> soeren: in the end, you will need to decide on your own, if you trust the packer 18:48 +<skh> ideas are welcome. ;-) 18:48 +<soeren> ok 18:48 +<adrianS> soeren: so we need to rate packagers later and to give them some trust level 18:48 +<mls_> Let's discuss this at FOSDEM, ok? 18:48 @<henne> yeah 18:48 @<henne> Action Item everybody: Discuss rating and trust system at FOSDEM 18:49 +<skh> (or on the lists?) 18:49 +<cthiel> skh: both ;) 18:49 +<crispin_> really, having done both, AppArmor profiling works better than trust ratings 18:49 @<henne> crispin_: its about packaging 18:49 @<henne> crispin_: not running applications 18:50 @<darix> crispin_: doing profiles for any desktop app out there ... any possible weird network setup ... you know how easily that can screw. :p 18:50 @<henne> crispin_: so do you trust packages that are build by user henne on the buildserver. stuff like that 18:50 @<henne> crispin_: trust in that context means do you install it or not 18:50 +<crispin_> so it is trust against mistakes rather than trust whether the package is a Trojan Horse? 18:51 @<darix> crispin_: apparmor cant protect against %pre/%post scripts e.e.g 18:51 +<crispin_> correct: you would need to profile RPM, and that would be painful :) 18:51 +<adrianS> crispin_: it doesn't matter in the end .. 18:51 @<darix> crispin_: impossible 18:51 @<henne> ok can we discuss this at FOSDEM? 18:51 @<darix> next? 18:51 +<skh> crispin: you know you're welcome to the opensuse dev room while you're at fosdem ;-) 18:51 @<darix> henne: sure 18:51 @<henne> NEXT TOPIC 18:51 +<cthiel> ok, I'm ready ;)
18:51 @<henne> o Bugzilla voting 18:52 +<cthiel> We have had requests to enable Voting in bugzilla in the past. After 18:52 +<cthiel> evaluating the various concerns that have been raised internally, we will 18:52 +<cthiel> eventually enable voting in bugzilla for SUSE Linux. Having said that, there 18:52 +<cthiel> is one thing that needs to be clear: Voting in Bugzilla will be used for 18:52 +<cthiel> orientation purposes only -- not for specific prioritisation / resource 18:52 @<henne> go paste ahead 18:52 +<cthiel> allocation. My guess would be to have voting in place by the end of this 18:52 +<cthiel> week or early next week. 18:52 +<cthiel> Oh, I would like to bring up one question in this regard: How many votes 18:52 +<cthiel> should a user be able to place? (Note: once a bug has been fixed, the user 18:52 +<cthiel> is able to recyle his vote.) 18:52 +<skh> how many are used in KDE bugzilla? 18:52 +<skh> they have the system working ok, I heard 18:52 +<cthiel> skh: I was about to ask the kde people on that ;) 18:52 @<darix> *pokes dirk* 18:53 +<skh> coolo told me. It wasn't many, like 10 or so 18:53 +<adrianS> KDE team just left for bowling .... 18:53 @<henne> lol 18:53 +<skh> matz guesses 10 too 18:53 @<henne> slackers 18:53 @<henne> o 18:53 @<henne> k 18:53 +<cthiel> skh: I guess we can try to play around with that... but 10 sounds good. 18:53 @<henne> action item cthiel: find out how many votes a user has in the KDE bugzilla 18:53 +<skh> I'd like to comment on the voting. 18:54 @<henne> is everybody ok that we use the same amount? 18:54 @<henne> skh: go ahead 18:54 +<skh> I hope that we don't raise false expectations. 18:54 +<skh> It is valuable and valued feedback, but this doesn't mean that our packagers do as you tell them. 18:55 +<cthiel> yes -- that needs to be very clear. 18:55 +<skh> you're bright people so I assume you probably don't expect that 18:55 +<smb> IMHO getting the exact number of votes initially isn't important, as presumably that can be tuned if its too high or too low. 18:55 @<henne> smb: too true 18:55 +<skh> but please don't start flaming our packagers when your favourite enhancement doesn't get it 18:56 * henne is flamefest 18:56 +<skh> (though when we never fix high-voted bugs we _will_ start and think) 18:56 @<henne> ok next topic? 18:56 @<henne> erm
SDB wiki import
18:57 @<henne> o SDB import 18:57 +<skh> ;-) 18:57 +<adrianS> SDB import is prepared but needs to wait for finishing the next point 18:57 @<henne> SDB == support database btw 18:57 +<adrianS> Michael Gross and Martin Lasarsch have prepare all scripts and tools to do it, after the i18n wiki is running 18:57 +<localhorst> the html -> wiki port is done, we didnt converted old and obsolete articles. 18:57 +<localhorst> Languages are the same from the old SDB: .de .en .fr .es. As soon as we enable 18:57 +<localhorst> the interwikis (see next point on agenda) you can access the SDB on opensuse.org. 18:57 +<localhorst> We will have a namespace (SDB:) for the SDB, so searching is easier. Everbody 18:57 +<localhorst> with a login can edit the pages or make new ones (hey, it's a wiki! :-) ). A 18:57 +<localhorst> howto/styleguide will be available (already finished). 18:58 @<henne> cool 18:58 +<localhorst> so as soon interwiki is up we will have sdb online 18:58 @<darix> bill-barriere: shoot 18:59 +<bill-barriere> but you say il8n here isnt the SDB in german only ? 18:59 +<skh> no. 18:59 +<localhorst> no, 18:59 +<cthiel> no 18:59 +<cthiel> ;) 18:59 @<darix> bill-barriere: no. all languages mentioned above are supported 18:59 * bill-barriere hide 18:59 +<localhorst> .de and .en are nearly the same amount of articles 18:59 @<henne> ok 18:59 @<henne> so what about Internationalized wikis? 19:00 @<henne> when is that horse done? 19:00 @<henne> darix? 19:00 @<darix> technically we are set ... imho 19:00 +<adrianS> okay, first we all do feel ashamed that this takes so long. 19:00 +<adrianS> The current state is that we finaly solved all technical issues (yesterday). We do hope to fix the content this week and go online maybe 19:00 +<adrianS> on thursday. We will not go online on friday, because not everybody is 19:00 +<adrianS> online on weekend in case of some emergency. 19:00 +<adrianS> I hope localhorst can help with the content tomorrow ;) 19:00 @<henne> that means this thursday? 19:00 +<adrianS> in best case, yes 19:01 +<michl> I doubt thursday 19:01 @<henne> cboltz has a question for the SDB 19:01 +<adrianS> depends how it look alike on thursday 19:01 @<henne> cboltz: please repeat 19:01 +<cboltz> What do you mean with "we didnt converted old and obsolete articles."? Did you manually sort them out or just by date? 19:01 +<adrianS> michl: don't destroy our hopes ;) 19:01 +<michl> just being realistic 19:02 +<skh> adrian: you know our thoughts on that, I think ;-) 19:02 +<localhorst> cboltz: we sorted the out ... you will not find stuff about nvida and 6.3 in the wiki :-) 19:02 +<skh> let's call it the big learning experience. 19:02 +<bill-barriere> well going back too 7.0 or even 8.2 isnt really necessary 19:02 +<skh> for all of us 19:02 +<adrianS> no world domination is possible by being realistic ;) 19:02 +<localhorst> cboltz: all manual 19:02 @<henne> stop chatting 19:02 * henne cracks the whip 19:02 +<cboltz> OK :-)
19:02 @<darix> houghi: your turn 19:03 +<houghi> I see the international items on e.g. http://www.opensuse.org/DE-Download. Is there a plan to put it on e.g. de.opensuse.org/Download ? 19:03 +<skh> yes. 19:03 @<darix> houghi: most likely yes. 19:03 +<adrianS> houghi: yes 19:03 +<skh> we will integrate the work already done on the public wiki 19:03 @<henne> everything else would be really mean... 19:03 +<skh> though we won't have all languages at first. 19:03 +<adrianS> houghi: we will lock the page short before doing the migration 19:03 +<skh> so TR-* will stay as it is for now. 19:04 +<skh> as an example. 19:04 +<cthiel> skh: but TR is a candidate for the next round of intl wikis 19:04 +<skh> that's the next batch planned for - well, after this one. 19:04 +<skh> as is RO 19:04 * henne has a question 19:04 +<michl> we need for each languaga a basic set of pages and a maintainer 19:05 +<skh> henne: please;-) 19:05 @<henne> can someone please make a page about this in the wiki? 19:05 +<localhorst> we are working on it 19:05 @<darix> AI henne ... make a page about this 19:05 +<cthiel> henne: well, it's a wiki -- so you are free to create it ;) 19:05 @<henne> so we can canalize the translation efforts? 19:05 +<skh> I thought there was one already 19:05 @<henne> cthiel: i cant. im fully booked 19:05 @<henne> any takers? 19:06 +<localhorst> im already on it 19:06 @<henne> oh ok 19:06 @<henne> neato 19:06 +<localhorst> with frank and bg 19:06 @<henne> question from cboltz 19:06 +<cboltz> Will DE-Download redirect do de.opensuse.org/Download when the migration is done? 19:06 +<adrianS> cboltz: I hope so 19:06 +<skh> darix? 19:07 +<adrianS> cboltz: but the link to DE-Download will disappear for sure 19:07 @<darix> skh: just a redirect ... and for content questions look at cthiel and michl and localhorst 19:07 @<darix> :) 19:07 +<adrianS> so I do not see a big problem 19:07 +<cthiel> darix: don't blame me ;) 19:07 @<henne> ok 19:07 @<henne> any more questions or can we go over to the next topic? 19:08 +<skh> next, please 19:08 +<michl> next topic
19:08 +<michl> Official forum 19:08 @<henne> Next Topic: Official forum 19:08 @<darix> michl: wait for the moderator 19:08 @<henne> adrianS? 19:08 +<adrianS> is it me ? 19:08 +<cthiel> adrianS: yes 19:09 +<adrianS> okay, we waited for some official forum from Novell 19:09 +<adrianS> It does not look alike that we will get it soon 19:09 +<adrianS> on the other hand we do not want to use man power here to work on it 19:09 +<adrianS> because we do not want to slow down any work on the build service or on the SLES 19:10 +<adrianS> declaring an external hosted forum is also not something what we want to do for now 19:10 +<adrianS> because the domain could be simply selled to someone 19:10 +<adrianS> that just happened with www.kde-forum.org 19:10 +<adrianS> so I do not see a solution for this in the near future 19:11 +<the_dude> the channel would be web based, like a bbs? 19:11 +<adrianS> yes 19:11 +<adrianS> phpBBS would be a usable solution, I am told 19:11 @<darix> adrianS: no way 19:12 +<cthiel> adrianS: fud forum... 19:12 +<cthiel> adrianS: or phpBB. 19:12 +<skh> it is also a question how important this is for you. 19:12 @<henne> details 19:12 +<adrianS> oh ;) 19:12 @<darix> cthiel: we dont need to discuss this now 19:12 +<the_dude> not very 19:12 +<cthiel> darix: right ;) 19:12 @<darix> cthiel: and a forum is more than just installing some software somewhere 19:12 @<henne> we need to discuss HOW we can get on officla forum 19:12 @<darix> aka_druid: ask 19:12 @<henne> not what software it runs 19:12 +<adrianS> I would not mind to host such a system, but I do not see anyone really spending time on it atm 19:12 +<skh> because we can change our minds regarding manpower when our community cries out for an official web forum 19:13 +<skh> but I don't see that many cries. 19:13 +<aka_druid> adrianS: its more like a suggestion. For all you've said, at eladt by now supporting the big forums that already exist could be a better solution 19:13 +<the_dude> novell does not like the idea? or has other priorities? 19:13 +<aka_druid> they are already there, working. Any new forum would be redundant. 19:13 +<skh> the_dude: don't ask 19:13 +<skh> sorry. 19:13 * the_dude relurks 19:13 +<adrianS> the_dude: skh will fly to them and find out ;) 19:13 @<henne> houghi has an idea! 19:13 +<skh> it's a mix of many aspects ;-) 19:13 +<houghi> If you just link e.g. forum.opensuse.org with DNS, the domain can't be sold. 19:13 @<henne> tada 19:14 +<adrianS> houghi: true, but it could 19:14 +<adrianS> suddenly disappear or misused 19:14 @<darix> houghi: you know ... we already did some kind of DOS on some sites 19:14 +<skh> then we link to something else 19:14 +<aka_druid> cthiel: sorry, I have to say, using phpbb is like writing "hack me" in the door 19:14 @<darix> houghi: like ftp.gwdg.de with beta releases 19:14 @<henne> then we can redirect DNS 19:14 @<darix> just declaring something as official and redirect can have bad effects on the forums 19:14 @<darix> =) 19:14 +<skh> but this would mean either bledding one of the existing suse community forums (and maybe alienating the others) 19:14 +<cthiel> aka_druid: we have apparmor... ;) 19:14 +<houghi> I understand it only takes away one aspect 19:14 +<skh> or setting up yet another suse forum... 19:14 +<aka_druid> heh 19:15 @<darix> cthiel: NO WAY. get that? 19:15 @<henne> aka_druid, cthiel take that to a PM 19:15 +<skh> no implementation please 19:15 +<skh> this is irrelevant here 19:15 +<cthiel> darix: calm down... ;) 19:15 @<henne> i find that DNS idead neato 19:15 @<henne> -d 19:15 +<skh> s/bledding/blessing/ above 19:15 @<henne> is there any forum owner in here? 19:15 +<aka_druid> darix: thats what I was talkin.. create yet another new forum, just to say its "official", I see no purpose. If its for ppl getting support, we have already 2 or 3 huge forums, taht works. If its not a priority (as it is the buildserver), lets leave it as it is now 19:16 @<darix> cthiel: if i am no longer calm i wouldnt type here but explaining it to you with some hitting arguments ;) 19:16 @<henne> guys 19:16 @<darix> aka_druid: are they linked from the wiki already? 19:16 @<henne> ill kick you 19:16 +<adrianS> henne: what do we do when it disappears or the owner suddenly wants $money ? 19:16 +<skh> darix: yes 19:16 @<darix> good 19:16 @<henne> adrianS: link to another forum? 19:16 @<darix> we are set folks. 19:16 @<darix> next? 19:16 +<the_dude> i agree with adrianS wait 19:16 +<the_dude> no rush 19:16 +<adrianS> we can't risk to loose the content, if we define on forum as official one 19:16 +<cthiel> right. 19:16 @<henne> hm 19:17 @<henne> why cant we? 19:17 @<henne> if we explain the situation? 19:17 +<houghi> No possible link between the mailinglist and a forum? 19:17 @<henne> if that high pothetical situation comes 19:17 +<adrianS> I do not think that this can be explained or excused ..... 19:18 @<henne> adrianS: never underestimate the power of blame :) 19:18 +<aka_druid> darix: I dunno, but Ive found these ones from google directory: suseforums.net suselinuxsupport.de 19:18 +<adrianS> another problem would be that you will need another login 19:18 @<darix> houghi: technically yes. novell promised something like that. 19:18 @<darix> houghi: thats why we were waiting in first place 19:18 +<skh> aka_druid: we have a list of them on the Communicate page already 19:18 +<yaloki> there already are 2 big SUSE forums, I don't think it's a good idea to have them left standing in the rain like that. openSUSE is also about embracing the existing community. 19:18 +<aka_druid> darix: ah well, as skh said, they are there :) 19:18 +<skh> yaloki: yes, that's what I meant by "alienating" above. 19:18 @<henne> ok stop for a second 19:19 +<aka_druid> skh: here is the source http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Linux/Distributions/SuSE/ 19:19 @<henne> so what we have now is 19:19 @<henne> [ x ] we want a forum 19:19 +<skh> do we want a forum? 19:19 +<skh> I'm not sure about that x 19:19 +<cthiel> skh: _we_ do ;) 19:20 +<adrianS> we have forums, but do we really need an official one ? 19:20 +<soeren> i don't think we need an _official_ forum... 19:20 @<darix> cthiel: why? 19:20 +<skh> cthiel: I don't. I think we have very well working community forums, and that we don't need an official one. 19:20 +<yaloki> personally, if I was one of the guys running the forum since years and contributing to the community and then being put aside by some "official" forum without being engaged into the discussion, I would feel very p***ed about it. Yet, the question is: if there is an "official" SUSE forum, can "legally gray zone" topics be discussed there as well? If not, it still leaves room for unofficial forums. 19:20 @<darix> cthiel: just "to have it" is not an reason 19:20 +<cthiel> let's try to avoid having this discussion without the people that actually requested it... 19:20 +<adrianS> yaloki: yes, very true 19:21 +<adrianS> yaloki: esp. because we need also to remove links to illegal stuff .... 19:21 +<cthiel> sorry for oversimplifying... but people that use irc aren't really the target group of web forums... 19:21 +<skh> cthiel: then let's take the discussion back to the list. 19:21 +<yaloki> originally, the idea with the forum came on the opensuse mailing-list, to move over the "newbies" to the forum and keep the mailing-list free of beginner questions. 19:21 +<cthiel> skh: right. 19:21 +<yaloki> skh: +1 19:21 +<the_dude> the main benefit i see to forum is searchable archives and faq loading 19:22 @<henne> ok 19:22 @<henne> who will start the discussion on the list again? 19:22 @<darix> the_dude: many of those points can be full filled by the wiki 19:22 +<skh> I can summarize and start the discussion 19:22 @<darix> like FAQ 19:22 @<darix> like searchable 19:22 +<adrianS> henne: you write minutes from this session ? 19:22 @<henne> Action Item skh: start web forum diskussion on email@example.com again 19:22 +<cthiel> I won't have the time over the next couple of weeks, to go ahead skh 19:22 @<henne> adrianS: i log 19:22 @<henne> adrianS: i grep, i pipe :P 19:22 +<skh> adrian: it's logged ;-) 19:22 +<cthiel> s/to/so/ 19:22 +<adrianS> henne: please make a comprehension of all topics and mail it to the listr 19:23 +<adrianS> read the log is not something what many people will do 19:23 @<henne> after the meeting is over... 19:23 @<henne> not now 19:23 +<adrianS> yes, thanks ! 19:23 +<cwh> for the minutes: I coul offer a machine (hosted by suse) for an forum 19:23 +<skh> cwh: oooh! 19:23 +<cthiel> cwh: but it would miss iChains support, right? 19:23 @<henne> hmmmm 19:23 @<darix> cwh: for wikis too? 19:23 +<adrianS> cwh: hardware isn't the problem, but thanks 19:23 @<darix> ^^ 19:23 +<adrianS> cthiel: WIP ... 19:24 @<henne> lets find out first if we really want an official forum :) 19:24 +<cthiel> adrianS: cool ;) 19:24 +<skh> ok, next. ;-) 19:24 @<darix> henne: next?
19:24 @<henne> NEXT TOPIC: Doc server 19:24 +<skh> anybody from documentation here? 19:24 +<cwh> cthiel: at the moment it woul miss ichain 19:24 +<cwh> darix: no 19:24 +<adrianS> The doc server is on hold, until the SLES docu is out 19:25 +<adrianS> there are open question within the docu team 19:25 +<yaloki> excuse me but what is "doc server" ? 19:25 +<adrianS> like, all docu from the nuernberg team is under GPL (or GFDL?) 19:25 +<adrianS> but the books do contain also other content provided by other teams 19:25 @<darix> may i say a few words about it? 19:25 @<henne> about the doc server? 19:25 @<darix> yeah 19:25 +<adrianS> please do 19:26 @<darix> ok 19:26 @<henne> when adrianS is finished yes 19:26 @<darix> basically we want to have all documentation of the distro available for reading. 19:26 @<darix> the handbooks, manpages, /usr/share/doc/packages 19:26 @<darix> if possible for old distributioons too 19:26 +<adrianS> and we want to give everybody a way to contribute to the books 19:27 +<yaloki> ok, that clarifies it, thank you 19:27 @<darix> i am already working on a script to update the server if new documentation pops up 19:27 +<skh> and that content is not wiki-able, so -> separate server. 19:27 @<darix> furthermore it should be possible to contribute to the books. 19:27 @<darix> we investigated ways to migrate the docbook to a wiki page and back 19:27 +<bill-barriere> simply without knowing latex ? 19:27 @<darix> but it seems there is no viable way for this 19:28 +<yaloki> maybe a very short technical word about it ? svn+docbook ? 19:28 @<darix> bill-barriere: we dont use latex. thats to last centure;) 19:28 +<skh> bill-barriere: well, docbook 19:28 +<skh> yaloki: yes 19:28 +<yaloki> docbook xml, right ? 19:28 +<bill-barriere> docbook sorry me and those thing 19:28 @<darix> the handbook is maintained in docbook xml. the storage atm is a svn server in nuremberg. 19:29 @<darix> the documentation team is investigating solutions for their workflow and community integration atm. 19:29 +<yaloki> excellent, sounds /very/ good :) thanks for the additional information (and sorry for bugging in the middle) 19:29 @<henne> it would be cool if some of them would be here next time *sigh* 19:29 +<azouhr> this is just a subset of docbook 19:29 +<skh> our documentation team is very keen on opensuse, but don't have much time for it right now. they are active on firstname.lastname@example.org, any discussions there. 19:29 @<darix> azouhr: why didnt you say something earlier 19:29 +<skh> henne: AI henne? 19:29 @<darix> henne: azouhr is berthold 19:30 @<henne> skh: shut up :P 19:30 @<darix> azouhr: *slaps* 19:30 @<henne> i know 19:30 +<skh> berthold! you here ;-) 19:30 @<darix> azouhr: correct me now :p 19:30 +<azouhr> i just play with my notebook ... 19:30 +<azouhr> ok ... again. 19:30 @<henne> azouhr: anything to add to what darix said about the docserver? 19:30 +<azouhr> in the documentation we use a DTD called novdoc that is something like a subset of docbook 19:31 @<henne> aha 19:31 +<azouhr> this dtd is available on novellforge together with the mechanics we use to build the books 19:31 @<darix> azouhr: but it shuld be expressable with normal docbook dtds right? 19:32 +<azouhr> all the elements we use are available in docbook as well 19:32 @<darix> ok^^ 19:32 +<azouhr> it is less to make the xml more easy to read 19:32 +<skh> the link to the forge project is on http://www.opensuse.org/Documentation_Team 19:32 @<henne> guys ok 19:32 @<henne> but what are the news on the doc server? 19:32 +<azouhr> and also to improve the layout. 19:33 @<henne> other then that it is on hold like adrianS said 19:33 +<azouhr> I don't have news on the docserver right now. There is no decision yet about how to publish the texts. We do want to give away the xml source 19:33 @<henne> okay :) 19:33 @<henne> Action Item azouhr: clarify the situation about the docserver 19:33 +<skh> azouhr: if we (the full-time opensuse people) can help you in any way, please say so 19:34 @<darix> azouhr: i hope we can finish my part of the documentation server when 10.1 is out. 19:34 +<azouhr> but it is unclear, if we can provide something like our build tools on a server or if people have to use them on their own machines. 19:34 @<henne> azouhr: is there a wiki page about it?= 19:34 +<azouhr> I fear that I don't have much time that I can invest until CODE10 is finished. there is too much to do there 19:34 +<adrianS> azouhr: technical, we can 19:35 @<henne> hm ok 19:35 @<henne> next topic or anything else on the doc server? 19:35 +<azouhr> one major problem is, that to build the pdf books you need a fo renderer. We currently use XEP from renderx, a commercial renderer. It would be possible to use fop, a freeware renderer, but it does not have all needed capabilities 19:36 * skh smells java and runs 19:36 * henne follows 19:36 +<azouhr> without the renderer, you are still able to create html docs, but no pdf 19:36 +<adrianS> which is anyway better for an open doc server ;) 19:36 +<skh> do you have a detailed list of these missing capabilities? 19:37 +<skh> and what adrian says 19:37 +<azouhr> the one that can tell you the missing thins is toms. I just work on the make mechanics ... 19:37 +<yaloki> skh: don't ask about Apache FOP, I'm sure you don't want to know ;) 19:37 +<skh> I felt brave for a moment. 19:38 +<skh> but maybe we can take this discussion to the doc listr 19:38 +<skh> list 19:38 +<azouhr> that sounds like a good idea 19:38 @<henne> yeah. its details. what i take from here is that it is on hold 19:38 @<darix> skh: i want to join you when you go to daniel and ask for the package;) 19:38 +<skh> heh. 19:38 @<henne> and that we need to put it up for the next meeting 19:39 +<skh> next. 19:39 +<skh> (beer)
Better wiki search
19:39 @<henne> NEXT TOPIC: Better wiki search 19:39 @<henne> darix? 19:39 @<henne> or who? 19:39 @<darix> henne: i hear about that the first time 19:39 +<skh> adrian: what about google? 19:39 @<darix> for the current wiki we have only title search enabled 19:39 @<darix> skh: wait 19:39 @<darix> i fixed that for the new wikis 19:40 @<darix> you can use the builtin wiki full text search 19:40 @<darix> and i fixed the setting for the namespaces that are searched by default. 19:40 @<darix> should give some good improvements here 19:40 * henne points at Beineri 19:40 @<darix> we did intensive search testing while testing the sdb migration. 19:40 @<henne> he did put it to the agenda 19:41 +<skh> didn't he leave already? 19:41 @<henne> ah. right. bowling 19:41 +<skh> then I'd say wait for the new wiki and reassess 19:41 +<skh> and next topic 19:41 @<henne> sounds reasonable 19:42 @<darix> skh: last comment 19:42 +<skh> sure 19:42 @<darix> we are investigating solutions like lucene 19:42 @<henne> ok thats it? 19:42 @<darix> that would give even betterfulltext search 19:42 @<darix> but that is very longterm 19:42 @<darix> yes 19:42 @<henne> NEXT TOPIC:
'openSUSE'<->'SUSE Linux' confusion, future naming of "OSS" & "Eval" products
19:42 @<henne> 'openSUSE'<->'SUSE Linux' confusion, future naming of "OSS" & "Eval" products 19:43 @<henne> thats a tricky one 19:43 +<cthiel> no as tricky as you might think henne ;) 19:43 +<cthiel> s/no/not/ 19:43 +<skh> first, the naming discussion was heard, and is being discussed way up there 19:43 +<skh> rest is for michl 19:43 +<michl> for 10.1 we'll have SUSE Linux only 19:44 +<michl> in the box and for free download 19:44 +<cthiel> => note: there won't be SUSE Linux OSS and SUSE Linux anymore! 19:44 +<cthiel> it's just _SUSE Linux_ 19:44 +<michl> todays OSS version will be SUSE Linux as well and we offer an addtional binary CD 19:44 +<michl> for all users interestet in that stuff as well 19:45 @<henne> question from yaloki 19:45 +<yaloki> awesome, but please keep in mind that it has to be communicated properly, some people are _very_ pedantic about using a 100% OSS version 19:45 +<yaloki> oops. sorry, my previous question has just been voided as there won't be a "SUSE Linux OSS" 19:45 +<michl> for download we offer DVDs as well, there the defaul installation is with binary packages as well 19:45 @<henne> yaloki: ok 19:45 +<yaloki> just make very clear how to get a 100% OSS version of SUSE Linux 19:46 +<skh> yaloki: noted and seconded. 19:46 +<yaloki> the pseudo reputation of SUSE Linux "not being free" has caused big damage in the FOSS community the past years 19:46 @<henne> Action Item henne: rework download page (again!!!! no!!!! ARGH!!!!) 19:46 @<darix> yaloki: i think that suse linux is not free is caused by a lot of FUD and false information. 19:46 +<yaloki> just making clear that SUSE Linux is no less free than Debian 19:46 @<darix> just my 2 cents 19:47 @<henne> note! 19:47 @<henne> noted! 19:47 +<skh> darix: yes, but off-topic 19:47 @<henne> question from bill-barriere 19:47 +<bill-barriere> how will that work out for all mirror cuz atm its fragmented between oss and official mirror 19:48 +<adrianS> bill-barriere: in the same way 19:48 +<adrianS> binary only stuff will not be on opensuse.org 19:48 +<adrianS> only on suse.com or novell.com 19:48 @<henne> so you will get 5 CDs OSS software form opensuse.org and an extra CD with binary stuff from suse.com right? 19:48 +<bill-barriere> but for iso and inst-source and it bad to fragment it that way ? 19:48 +<adrianS> henne: right 19:49 +<bill-barriere> exemple is my univ they only mirror the suse.de part or whatever so they get supplementary and iso but no inst-source 19:49 +<adrianS> bill-barriere: I do not get your question 19:49 +<skh> bill-barriere: the world is fragmented like this. the alternative would be not to offer the binary-only / nonfree things at all 19:50 @<henne> ok but how can we address that people are not syncing opensuse.org? 19:50 @<henne> but only suse.de 19:50 +<adrianS> bill-barriere: I consider this problem on your side ;) 19:50 +<bill-barriere> thats my point 19:50 +<skh> bill-barriere: we don't want non-free software on opensuse.org, so yes, you will have to find a mirror that carries what you need. 19:50 * bill-barriere see admin poking in sight :( 19:50 +<skh> mirrors should have been a separate topic maybe? 19:50 @<henne> true 19:51 @<darix> henne: talk to the mirrors. i know it helps 19:51 @<henne> Topic Next Meeting: mirrors 19:51 +<adrianS> urgml ... 19:51 @<henne> adrianS: hm? 19:51 +<adrianS> IMHO we are in good shape with the mirrors 19:51 +<skh> the new CD layout results in less media, if I have understood correctly, so it will reduce the load on the mirrors? adrian? 19:51 @<darix> if you have much bandwidth and traffic spare. contact adrian about mirroring 19:51 @<darix> adrianS: we are not. :) 19:51 +<adrianS> 10 strong mirrors who do get updates every day 19:51 @<darix> adrianS: many mirrors that claim to carry factory 19:51 @<henne> adrianS: everybody strongly disagrees :) 19:52 @<darix> actually dont have it 19:52 +<adrianS> last time I looked they got it within 3 days 19:52 +<skh> adrian: how often is factory updated? 19:52 +<adrianS> except one, okay 19:52 @<henne> well lets not make this a topic now ok? 19:52 +<skh> ok. 19:52 * skh shuts up 19:52 @<henne> we are already way to late :) 19:53 +<skh> but if everybody has problems, we need to do something about it even if we think we should be ok 19:53 @<henne> so michl will you explain this move on the mailinglist in detail please? 19:53 @<darix> henne: it is to late for shopping anyway. we can do some more hours ;) 19:53 +<skh> henne: schedule 2 hours next time 19:53 +<skh> it's worth it 19:53 +<adrianS> henne: michl did 19:53 @<henne> skh: its been 1:53 :) 19:53 +<skh> henne: so we have 7 left ;-) 19:53 @<henne> ok 19:53 +<skh> for Status 10.1 19:54 +<skh> aj still alive? 19:54 @<darix> how many of you will install of 10.1b2 on thursday? 19:54 +<AJaeger> Yes! 19:54 @<henne> Action Item michl: explain the new media layout on email@example.com 19:54 +<AJaeger> henne_log: on opensuse-factory! 19:54 +<AJaeger> Ok, let me start with SUSE Linux 10.1! 19:55 @<henne> wait wait wait 19:55 * AJaeger waits 19:55 @<henne> are we trough with that renaming topic? 19:55 +<skh> I think we should discuss it on the main list 19:55 @<henne> ok lets go 19:55 @<henne> Next Topic: 19:55 +<skh> it's not a factory topic and we reach more people there 19:55 @<henne> SUSE Linux 10.1 :) 19:56 +<bill-barriere> well it still leave too seperated site site /suse and /opensuse would prefer to have a common repository for my part 19:56 @<henne> skh: yeah 19:56 +<AJaeger> So, me now? 19:56 +<adrianS> skh: maybe you can take this AI from michl ? 19:56 @<henne> bill-barriere: lets discuss that on the mailinglist 19:56 +<skh> adrianS: he needs to braindump to me then, but ok 19:56 @<henne> ok 19:56 @<henne> Action Item skh: explain the new media layout on firstname.lastname@example.org 19:57 @<henne> can we continue now? 19:57 +<skh> yes
Status SUSE Linux 10.1
19:57 * henne puts the spotlight on the AJaegermeister 19:57 @<henne> AJaeger: go ahead :) 19:57 * AJaeger thanks the Henne! 19:57 +<AJaeger> Thanks everybody for downloading and testing SUSE Linux 10.1 Beta1. 19:57 +<AJaeger> beta2 will be out on thursday *if* we fix the remaining blockers in time to put beta2 tomorrow on the mirrors. 19:58 +<AJaeger> Due to only one week between the betas, not all bugs reported for beta1 will be fixed for beta2. 19:58 +<AJaeger> Some of our teams are also doing a bit of development, so beta2 will see some new stuff: 19:58 +<AJaeger> KDE 3.5.1 (nearly final) 19:58 +<AJaeger> - AppArmor is enabled by default 19:58 +<AJaeger> - audit daemon should be running by default as it's used instead of syslog for AppArmor 19:58 +<AJaeger> subfs has been dropped. 19:58 +<adrianS> remark: "on the mirrors" means in the stage area, public access will be later (thurday) 19:59 @<henne> question from schiele 19:59 +<bill-barriere> have you poked at the ati driver (or ati folks) so it could work ? 19:59 +<schiele> What does replace subfs? 19:59 +<AJaeger> - we're going to switch the package manager libraries based on Red Carpet - which is planned for beta3. Beta2 will have rug, zmd and zen-updater already. 19:59 +<adrianS> remark: subfs will be replaced by a desktop side solution for automounting 20:00 @<henne> wtf is that supposed to mean? 20:00 +<AJaeger> schiele: hal has support for some stuff already, the rest is gnome-volume-manager (under GNOME) 20:00 +<AJaeger> and for KDE there's also some binary (don't know the name right now). 20:00 +<skh> and all the others know how to mount manually? 20:00 @<darix> coolo created some nice stuff. 20:00 +<skh> (non-KDE, non-GNOME users) 20:01 @<darix> 20:00:56 < asklein> And what about fvwm users, or other windowmanagers? 20:01 +<AJaeger> skh: Yes, there's no solution for non-KDE/GNOME. 20:01 @<henne> so were back to mounting manually? 20:01 @<henne> cool :) 20:01 +<AJaeger> I expect that longer term, some application that uses hal will do this for other windowmanagers. 20:01 +<skh> doesn't sound too bad 20:01 @<darix> AJaeger: as the deadline is too close for 10.1... will you put it on the agenda for 10.2? 20:02 +<AJaeger> darix: What do you mean? 20:02 @<henne> antoher question from asklein 20:02 @<darix> AJaeger: a non kde/gnome solution that i can put in my CD and usb stick and it will get mounted 20:02 +<AJaeger> If I get one, I consider it - but yes, should be a feature for 10.2... 20:02 +<AJaeger> asklein: go ahead! 20:03 +<asklein> Not event the old way of putting a line into /etc/fstab, so that a user can mount it? 20:03 +<adrianS> asklein: that would conflict 20:03 +<AJaeger> asklein: Correct. 20:03 @<henne> uhm 20:03 @<henne> remark: that sucks 20:03 @<henne> :) 20:04 @<darix> seconds that 20:04 @<henne> houghi has a question about this move 20:04 +<houghi> Pity the automount won't work under non-KDE/Gnome. No way to have it somehow for those who want it? 20:04 +<adrianS> houghi: you will be able to run the kde backend at least manually 20:05 +<AJaeger> I'm not aware of a solution right now. Btw. an FAQ has been: How to disable subfs ;-) 20:05 +<AJaeger> adrianS: Yes, that should work as well. 20:05 +<adrianS> AJaeger: which was because of the sync problem within the kernel, which is solved anyway 20:05 @<darix> _Marcus_: again 20:05 +<_Marcus_> there is no autmount. it calls hal to actually mount the device via a callback 20:05 +<AJaeger> I propose that you all play around with beta2 and discuss this on opensuse-factory. 20:05 +<houghi> Disableing subfs fore those who want it sibables is something else as ripping it out alltogether. 20:05 +<_Marcus_> you could write a helper program to do it. 20:05 @<henne> yeah 20:06 @<henne> lets take this to opensuse-factory 20:06 @<henne> and wait for beta2 first :) 20:06 +<houghi> OK. 20:07 @<henne> who will start this discussion? 20:07 @<henne> houghi you? 20:07 +<skh> (first non-SUSE Action Item handed out!) 20:07 * skh cheers 20:07 +<houghi> OK. 20:07 @<henne> Action Itme houghi: start discussion about subfs replacement in non KDE/GNOME systems 20:07 @<henne> hooray :) 20:08 +<houghi> I will wait for Beta2 first 20:08 @<darix> skh: we can give organizing fosdem to pascal ;) 20:08 * AJaeger thanks houghi 20:08 +<houghi> NP 20:08 @<henne> hm 20:08 +<AJaeger> Any questions on 10.1 in general? 20:09 +<yaloki> is a version freeze planned some time for 10.1 betas ? 20:09 @<henne> question from yaloki 20:09 +<yaloki> or is it continuous bleeding edge until release time ? 20:09 +<yaloki> <- from the packager perspective 20:09 +<jcnengel> The asus_acpi module just got an update to 0.30 from Karol Kozimor. Will you take this for the 10.1? 20:09 +<yaloki> I don't want to rebuild tons of my RPMs with every beta ;) 20:09 @<darix> yaloki: it is cold as ice already 20:10 +<AJaeger> yaloki: We have called a version freeze with beta1 already - but do make a few exceptions. 20:10 +<yaloki> ok, thanks 20:10 +<skh> yaloki: we're at bugfixing now. 20:10 +<yaloki> ok, so basically it is stable for packaging (and not getting major version changes on KDE or something) 20:10 +<AJaeger> jcnengel: Don't know - please open a bugzilla report and let's discuss this with the experts. 20:10 +<skh> none planned that I know (but you know, the KDE team is bowling....) 20:11 +<AJaeger> yaloki: KDE 3.5.1 was the last major change - and then we have the package manager changes. 20:11 +<yaloki> great, thanks, that answers my question (I remember some big version changes in-between 10.0 betas) 20:11 +<AJaeger> And we're waiting for GCC 4.1.0 final - but that's it in general - further updates will be only bugfix updates but no more features. 20:12 +<cthiel> .. in theory ;) 20:12 +<yaloki> it's the same ABI anyway, the GCC version shouldn't be an issue 20:12 +<skh> we at least try 20:12 +<AJaeger> cthiel: Every exception needs to go through my colleague Thorsten and me. 20:12 @<darix> konold: wait until the meeting is over. i think aj will be interested :) 20:12 +<AJaeger> yaloki: I hope. 20:13 +<yaloki> GCC 3.4 upwards are binary/ABI-compatible, so changing the GCC version (and libstdc++ & co) won't mean rebuilding, that's what I meant ;) 20:13 @<henne> ok 20:13 @<henne> GCC getails 20:13 +<skh> henne: close it 20:13 +<yaloki> sorry, that was noisy 20:13 +<AJaeger> yaloki: We rebuild the complete distro if a new GCC gets in. 20:13 @<henne> ok lets call it a day 20:13 @<henne> then 20:13 @<henne> one last thing: 20:14 @<henne> As the topic says this was the first openSUSE status meeting 20:14 @<henne> we are planing to do more 20:14 @<henne> way more ;) 20:14 @<henne> that means we will do this now every 2 weeks 20:14 +<houghi> http://www.opensuse.org/2006-01-24-status-meeting had a question from Pflodo wich has not been asnwerd. 20:14 @<henne> houghi: i take it to the next meeting 20:15 +<houghi> OK. 20:15 @<henne> so tomorrow i will create a page for the next meeting 20:15 +<skh> it also had an unanswered question _to_ Pflodo... 20:15 @<darix> hmm 20:15 +<skh> but yes 20:15 @<henne> and we can start to fill the agenda 20:15 @<darix> henne: i suggest moving it to a category 20:15 @<darix> like 20:15 @<henne> darix: details. tomorrow :) 20:15 @<darix> http://www.opensuse.org/Meetings:status-2006-01-24 20:15 @<darix> that way it will be easier to find 20:16 @<henne> sure 20:16 +<skh> AI darix. 20:16 @<henne> thanks for participoating everyone 20:16 @<henne> it was a really nice meeting 20:16 @<henne> OVER AND OUT --- Log closed Tue Jan 24 20:16:22 2006