Meetings/Status Meeting 2006-08-29/transcript
< Meetings
--- Log opened Tue Aug 29 18:01:12 2006
18:00 @<henne> Welcome to the openSUSE Status Meeting!
18:00 @<henne> This meeting is meant to discuss the latest developments in and around openSUSE.
18:00 @<henne> The topics of this meeting are:
18:00 @<henne> * Status 10.2
18:00 @<henne> * Status wiki
18:00 @<henne> * Status build service
18:00 @<henne> * Q & A
18:00 @<henne> so lets start with 10.2
18:00 @<henne> AJaeger go :)
18:00 <AJaeger> Thanks henne!
18:01 <AJaeger> I've presented the schedule and feature set for openSUSE 10.2 on the opensuse-factory list, next week we have Alpha4 and will have beta1 on the 26th of October, and the ISOs finaly on the server on the 7th of December.
18:01 <AJaeger> I suggest to ask questions on the mailing list but if you have some now, please go ahead.
18:02 <AJaeger> Let me answer to the questions that were asked on the meeting side (in some sorted order) for the distribution (both 10.1 and 10.2):
18:02 @<henne> no question regardings the 10.2 schedule/features?
18:02 <DimStar> Us the final release date somewhat open
18:02 <DimStar> ?
18:02 <AJaeger> We're currently testing an update of the package manager stack with patch/delta RPM support in YOU (not yet in zmd). I sent out this morning an annoncement and asked for testers! Once this one is released, we'll remaster all ISO media on the ftp servers (not the LiveCD, not the physical media) and release an update to 10.1.
18:03 <DimStar> I mean: are there chances that big issues like for 10.1 have to be fixed AFTER final release_
18:03 <DimStar> ?
18:03 <AJaeger> DimStar: Could you rephrase the question? I do not understandt
18:03 <AJaeger> DimStar: I hope not.
18:03 <AJaeger> There's nothing on the roadmap planned to hit us after beta3 - since we will not have a beta3 ;-)
18:03 <DimStar> I think we all do. Just in case something should arrive, I'd suggest to move the release date
18:03 <netmask> hello
18:03 <AJaeger> DimStar: I agree...
18:03 <Bittin> hi
18:03 @<henne> DimStar: thats kind of asking to plan things you cant plan :)
18:04 <DimStar> Ok.. that's kinda true.
18:04 <AJaeger> benJIman asked about "add a button to YaST/zen-installer to add
18:04 <AJaeger> interesting installation sources like freshmeat, sourceforge, packman
18:04 <AJaeger> etc.":
18:04 <AJaeger> Your question is something else than what we think - your suggestion
18:04 <AJaeger> is more involved. We thought of a simple button that would then add
18:04 <AJaeger> automatically a predefined set (or a list of) repositories. But this
18:04 <AJaeger> would be rather static - or a list downloaded from our server. So, no
18:04 <AJaeger> way for a web page to add something to it. The suggestion that he
18:04 <AJaeger> made ("Will it be possible to have kde/gnome file handlers for some
18:04 <AJaeger> file type to allow people to add package repositories by visiting web
18:04 <AJaeger> pages as previously discussed") is something after 10.2 - we need both
18:04 <AJaeger> but cannot do both in time.
18:05 <AJaeger> DimStar: Our plan is to make the best openSUSE release ever - and stay on the conservative side so that we cannot break too much ;-). We need a good distro again with breakages.
18:05 <AJaeger> Areca arcmsr Hardware RAID driver: If those go in 2.6.19 and there's a
18:05 <AJaeger> clean patch for 2.6.18 (and we use 2.6.18 and not 2.6.19), we could
18:05 <AJaeger> backport them. We have now a general kernel policy to use a kernel
18:05 <AJaeger> that is as close as needed to the upstream kernel and will in general
18:05 <AJaeger> not accept drivers and patches which are not in the upstream kernel.
18:05 <AJaeger> Please open a bugzilla report for this driver and we'll evaluate this
18:05 <AJaeger> in the middle of october again.
18:05 <Bittin> Hi
18:05 <Bittin> Can i ask something?
18:05 <AJaeger> That's all I have to say regarding 10.1 and 10.2 for now.
18:05 <AJaeger> Bittin: If it's about 10.1/10.2: Go ahead!
18:05 <Bittin> yepp
18:06 <AJaeger> This is the discussion part of the meeting for the distribution - others are welcome to ask as well ;-)
18:06 <Bittin> Can u make Radeon HIS 9550 256ram drivers to Next version?
18:06 <Bittin> 3D Drivers?
18:06 <Bittin> Compile?
18:06 <Bittin> becouse ati has not do :(
18:06 <AJaeger> Binary only driver - or is this an opensource driver?
18:07 <Bittin> dunno
18:07 <Bittin> i don't got 3D drivers for that card?
18:07 <Bittin> can somone fix?
18:07 <AJaeger> It should go into the upstream release - X.org/Linux kernel - and then we grab it.
18:07 <Bittin> ok
18:07 <Yamaraj> May I request that an arrangement be made so that the updates and security fixes can easily be merged with the official release, thus allowing users to create respin CDs/DVDs easily?
18:07 <AJaeger> The problem is with most drivers that there's no specification available and without a spec it's very hard.
18:07 <Bittin> ok
18:07 <Tsuroerusu> Ajaeger: Will there be 3D driver KMPs for 10.2 or is this a SLED/10.1 only "feature" ?
18:08 <_Marcus_> depends on Nvidia and ATI I suspect
18:08 <AJaeger> Yamaraj: We discussed that and consider it more important to have a frozen tree.
18:08 <AJaeger> Tsuroerusu: Ask Nvidia and ATI. We cannot do much there.
18:08 <DimStar> nVidia released new drivers but there are not even packages for SuSE 10.1 and SLE available yet
18:08 <k0da> AJaeger, is gnome-main-menu available on 10.2 by default?
18:09 <Bittin> that sucks :(
18:09 <AJaeger> Yamaraj: A frozen tree means you do not need to download the meta data everytime.
18:09 <AJaeger> DimStar: Then tell them...
18:09 <Tsuroerusu> Ajaeger: Fair enough, how about YaST-gtk? Will it be in 10.2?
18:09 <Bittin> and fix VLC in 1.12
18:09 <AJaeger> k0da: gnome-main-menu will be part of the GNOME desktop for 10.2
18:10 <DimStar> IS XGL going to be more useful? Don't misunderstand: I like it a lot and it's just nice to see that the desktop can be a bit alive, despite this fact, I had to deactivate it again because of to many programs not working rights (most openGL soft, DosBox having a half transparency)
18:10 <darix> Bittin: what do you mean?
18:10 <AJaeger> Tsuroerusu: Not by default, it will be in the ftp tree only.
18:10 <Bittin> darix: include VLC in 1.12
18:10 <netmask> speaking about 3d, will it be possible to configure xgl through yast, or some other easy way?
18:10 <Nix> I know this is not on the agenda, but will knetworkmanager work correctly with multiple dialup accounts in 10.2?
18:10 @<henne> Nix: if it does not then bugreport it :)
18:11 <darix> Bittin: VLC most likely has patent issues.
18:11 <AJaeger> Nix: I don't know everything - could you file a bugreport i nbugzilla, please?
18:11 <Yamaraj> AJaeger: The official stance is acceptable on the issue. But still, people have had annoying problems with 10.1; and if it wes possible to create respins, many problems would be solved easily.
18:11 <Nix> ok.
18:11 <Bittin> darix: or fix .avi to kaffiene :)
18:11 <Yamaraj> s/wes/was
18:11 <darix> Bittin: same patent issues.
18:11 <Bittin> ok :(
18:11 <darix> Bittin: the codecs are not free.
18:11 <AJaeger> Yamaraj: 10.1 will be remastered as I mentioned - all ftp trees!
18:11 <Bittin> try to fix them darix
18:12 <Bittin> www.xvid.org
18:12 <Yamaraj> AJaeger: Thanks for the good news! :-)
18:12 <darix> Bittin: use theora. that codec is free and available.
18:12 <Bittin> that should be free :D
18:12 <darix> Bittin: same patent issues.
18:12 <Tsuroerusu> AJaeger: Will it just be a remaster or a kinda "SUSE Linux 10.1 Second Edition" :P ?
18:12 <Bittin> darix: where i install that?
18:12 <GNAM> 10.1.1?
18:12 <AJaeger> netmask: xgl will be currently easily to configure in the GNOME controlcenter:
18:12 @<henne> Bittin: please go to #opensuse for support
18:12 <Nix> Bittin: the xvid code is free but but not necessarily legal to use in some juristictions..
18:12 @<henne> Bittin: not here in the meeting
18:12 <Bittin> henne: sorry :D
18:13 <Bittin> ok Nix :(
18:13 <Beineri> #opensuse is no more :-)
18:13 <AJaeger> Tsuroerusu: I don't know how we call it - what we do is: Take all the packages from the update tree and put them on the media instead of the original ones.
18:13 @<henne> Beineri: of course it is
18:13 <darix> Beineri: it still works.
18:13 <Beineri> henne: it forwards
18:13 @<henne> Beineri: and?
18:13 <k0da> did 10.2 be more gnome oriented than kde?
18:13 <Nix> AJaeger: I think that is a move that will be welcomed by everyone!
18:13 <darix> k0da: no
18:13 <AJaeger> k0da: We do not change our policy.
18:13 <_fm_> i read something about an arrangement between novell and the realplayer folks the last days. is realplayer with all the codecs going to be included in 10.2 or is it just for sled? AJaeger
18:13 <k0da> darix, ok
18:13 <netmask> AJaeger: what about kde users? no wasy way for xgl? ;)
18:14 <AJaeger> We take the latest desktops, so GNOME 2.16 and KDE 3.5.5.
18:14 <Tsuroerusu> AJaeger: OK, fair enough, I just thought it'd be cool to label it "10.1 SE" so people would know for sure that this thing wasn't broken like the original 10.1
18:14 <_Marcus_> 10.1.1 ;)
18:14 <DimStar> may I rephrase: IS XGL going to be more useful? Don't misunderstand: I like it a lot and it's just nice to see that the desktop can be a bit alive, despite this fact, I had to deactivate it again because of to many programs not working rights (most openGL soft, DosBox having a half transparency)
18:14 <AJaeger> _fm_: We will continue to have realplayer as part of our binary add-on.
18:14 <Beineri> _Marcus_: the Alpha version is 10.1.1, no?
18:14 <Tsuroerusu> netmask: XGL doesn't even work well under KDE, no need for an easy way to make your system tray miserable
18:14 <houghi> Why not name it 10.2 and the one in December 10.3?
18:14 @<henne> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH people!!!!
18:14 <netmask> Tsuroerusu: okie, thanks
18:14 <AJaeger> netmask: Work is going on for KDE and xgl.
18:14 @<henne> i can do this moderated again if we only chat!
18:15 <Yamaraj> I also request that the whole GCC suite be put on discs. gcc-ada and gfortran are not large packages, and it would be easy on developers not having to download these after installation. Can NetBeans and/or latest Eclipse also be put on discs?
18:15 <AJaeger> DimStar: Please report bugs against the apps. I hope most of them will be fixed.
18:15 <Beineri> Yamaraj: https://bugzilla.novell.com
18:15 <AJaeger> Yamaraj: We will not change the set of packages.
18:15 <aka_druid_> Yamaraj: just because you need doesnt mean everybody needs
18:15 <aka_druid_> henne: are we still in questions?
18:15 <DimStar> AJaeger: ok... I was not sure if it's considered a bug of the respective app or of xgl.
18:16 <AJaeger> Ok, let's close the round here.
18:16 <k0da> an what policy did you include language packahe?
18:16 @<henne> aka_druid_: yes. regarding 10.2
18:16 @<henne> ok any question we did not answer?
18:18 @<henne> ok so we can go to the next topic
18:18 @<henne> Status wiki
18:18 @<henne> notlocalhorst
18:18 <aka_druid_> henne: I ahve one, if we will have kmps for 10.1 and 10.2
18:18 <aka_druid_> for the nvidia driver I mean
18:18 <_Marcus_> aka_druid_: for 10.1 use the SLE10 ones.
18:18 <k0da> packahe=package i mean why albanian language included on disk but no russian?
18:18 <_Marcus_> aka_druid_: for 10.2 see above, contact nvidia/ati
18:18 <aka_druid_> _Marcus_: and what do I do when 10.1 get kernel updates and sle dont?
18:18 <Yamaraj> aka_druid_: Sorry, but people don't need 5-6 windows managers shipped by default, either.
18:18 <_Marcus_> aka_druid_: both 10.1 and sle10 track the exact same kernel for tzhe rest of their life
18:18 <aka_druid_> Yamaraj: but people prefer that then a fortran compiler that could be in the mirrors anyway. Speak for yourself
18:18 <aka_druid_> _Marcus_: 10.1 got kernel update fiorst and the kmps ews for nvidia were broken
18:18 <aka_druid_> will sle and 10.1 have kernel updates synced then?
18:18 <AJaeger> DimStar: Report it and let our developers figure it out - but report it in such a way that it can be reproduced ;-)
18:18 <AJaeger> k0da: Support for Tier1 languages first, level of translation next.
18:18 <AJaeger> k0da: language support is something we need to discuss for 10.2 at some point - each language needs so much space that we might end with several CDs only for languages at one point :-(
18:18 <AJaeger> henne: I suggest to move on to the next topic.
18:19 <notlocalhorst> ok, wiki: - wikis ready: pt, el, is. pt needs maybe some fixes, needs to be discussed. All are
18:19 <notlocalhorst> not anounced yet, next week
18:19 <notlocalhorst> - frontapage redesign: layout is ready, i will start to talk with the language mainta
18:19 <notlocalhorst> iners soon. thanks to everybody who participated the discussion on the list
18:19 <notlocalhorst> thats all from me
18:19 <k0da> AJaeger, ok if we do complete yast translation and kde it included on disk?
18:19 @<henne> guys!
18:19 <cthiel> I guess we will be able to launch the new splash (for www.openSUSE.org) soon...
18:19 @<henne> and gals
18:20 <AJaeger> k0da: Let's followup on the opensuse-factory mailing list. I'm not going to answer this here now...
18:20 @<henne> any questions regarding the wiki?
18:20 <notlocalhorst> cthiel is right, and a new splash ... see discussion on opensuse-wiki
18:21 @<henne> okay then we go to the next topic
18:21 @<henne> Status build service
18:21 @<henne> adrianS
18:21 <adrianS> The Build Service is currently only running with half build hosts atm because
18:21 <adrianS> we try to make them PXE booting ready via the KIWI project.
18:21 <adrianS> We need to update the Roadmap, we will not be able to open it up before Q4.
18:21 <adrianS> One of our next steps is to switch to iChain.
18:22 <adrianS> so we will use same login accounts as within the wiki.
18:22 <adrianS> But that we not directly mean that everybody has write acces.
18:22 @<henne> who grants it then?
18:22 <adrianS> Stuff which we need to implement for an open build service are ACL's and quotas
18:22 <bgerber> will those who have current access still be able to get in via wiki login?
18:22 <adrianS> and we need to support source merging
18:23 <adrianS> with that we will be able to maintain all sources within the build service for our distributions
18:23 <AJaeger> adrianS: There was a question on the wiki: "When the build service will open for the public usage? The roadmap say about Q3 but I think that there is some delay."
18:23 <adrianS> that makes real community contributions possible.
18:23 @<henne> AJaeger: which adrian just answered...
18:23 <adrianS> AJaeger: I hope, I just have answered this ;)
18:23 <adrianS> henne: for now, it will be me to grant these rights
18:23 <adrianS> later everybody gets write access immediate
18:23 <AJaeger> henne, adrianS: Sorry - shouldn't have taken so long to copy this :-((( Will shutup again ;-)
18:24 @<henne> okay
18:24 <Nix> I think you guys a doing a great job with the build service. It is getting more usefull everyone update.
18:24 <k0da> adrianS, is packages builded on build service can be included in openSuSE?
18:24 <adrianS> k0da: we want to do it the other way around, we want to develop openSUSE distro within the build service
18:24 <adrianS> first we will only move the leaf packages inside, but the core will follow
18:25 <adrianS> so everybody can track the changes and everybody will be able to submit stuff
18:25 <k0da> adrianS, thanx
18:25 <aka_druid_> *fear*
18:25 <Yamaraj> That's a fine idea indeed!
18:25 <Nix> I think it would be nice (although non trivial) to give an index of build service repositories inside the "Installation Sources" module of yast..
18:25 <adrianS> Nix: right, we have already a running feature request for this
18:25 <aka_druid_> they are all repo-md repos?
18:26 <adrianS> I dunno when this happens
18:26 <darix> aka_druid_: yes
18:26 <adrianS> aka_druid: atm yet, but we an add also other kinds of formats
18:26 <netmask> adrianS: and the package searching on bs is missing too :)
18:26 <aka_druid_> darix: yeah, that was a rethoric question heh
18:26 <adrianS> but we would like to stick with repo-md if possible
18:26 <adrianS> netmask: yes, the backend can already do it
18:26 <aka_druid_> adrianS: including the mains suse source?
18:26 <adrianS> netmask: only the web gui needs support
18:26 <aka_druid_> which is now suse-tags
18:27 <adrianS> aka_druid: I do not get you ...
18:27 * henne neither
18:27 <netmask> adrianS: [kinda offtopic] "but we would like to stick with repo-md if possible" ... does it mean you're thinking about abandoning yast2 repo format?
18:27 <adrianS> do you speak about yast sources ?
18:27 <aka_druid_> adrianS: the mains isnt-source is not yum
18:27 <aka_druid_> adrianS: yeah, the "main" source
18:27 <aka_druid_> the one with the contens of the dvd
18:27 <darix> netmask: he refers to the sources in the build service
18:27 <aka_druid_> the one you sue to net install
18:28 <AJaeger> netmask: We consider enhancing repo-md where needed.
18:28 <netmask> darix: I know, just raising and old question ;)
18:28 <aka_druid_> my question is the same as netmask
18:28 <adrianS> aka_druid: yes, we want to create it with the build service in future
18:28 <adrianS> and we can also support yast format already where needed (9.3)
18:28 <aka_druid_> would be lovely to have only one repo format
18:28 <adrianS> it is a project setting
18:28 <darix> aka_druid_: rpm-md still needs to learn a few things
18:29 <Nix> what are the missing features in rpm-md compared to yast format?
18:29 <adrianS> well, in the end we are flexibel here ...
18:29 <adrianS> Nix: adding selections/patterns for example
18:29 <AJaeger> Nix: Not only compared to yast format...
18:29 <Nix> ok
18:30 <AJaeger> Nix: We just use repositories much more than before and have new requirements...
18:30 <aka_druid_> darix: then maybe we should have stick with suse-tags while repo-md was "learning'
18:30 <Nix> I noticed that yast in 10.1 had some problems resolving dependencies in rpm-md repos that only exist in yast repositories..
18:31 <aka_druid_> Nix: its more like a pug in the PM than in the repos, the way I see
18:31 <aka_druid_> byg*
18:31 <darix> Nix: that sentence doesnt make sense ... repositories inside repositories?
18:31 <Tsuroerusu> darix: Now there's a new form of virtualization for ya :P
18:31 <adrianS> okay, any further questions regarding the build service ?
18:32 @<henne> seems not so
18:32 @<henne> do we have remaining questions for the Q/A section?
18:32 <Tsuroerusu> I have one quick one for the bs
18:33 @<henne> ok
18:33 <Tsuroerusu> What sorta rules will be applied to the bs in terms of what packages you're allowed to build? Because I can just smell the lawyers calling if people start building like full featured versions of Xine, MPlayer, VLC etc.
18:33 <Nix> darix: I need to confirm that it still exists.. it was a month or so ago
18:34 <adrianS> You are not allowed to ignore patents, so when we know about a package which provides patented code, we have to remove it.
18:34 @<henne> and we will remove it
18:34 <Tsuroerusu> Fair enough
18:35 @<henne> okay any more questions we didnt cover yet?
18:35 <Tsuroerusu> The source for the bs is open source right? Someone could just run their own and build MPlayer right? :P
18:35 <aka_druid_> Tsuroerusu: or save their time and install fro packman
18:35 <AJaeger> mmh - let's revert the decision to opensource it ;-)
18:36 <Tsuroerusu> aka_druid: Yeah well, I hate when Packman forces you to install w32codecs-all through dependencies
18:36 <darix> Tsuroerusu: most features of mplayer _require
18:36 <darix> Tsuroerusu: most features of mplayer _require_ w32codecs
18:36 @<henne> Tsuroerusu: the BS is not opensource yes
18:36 @<henne> yet
18:36 <Tsuroerusu> darix: Works fine without them for me
18:36 <darix> Tsuroerusu: dependencies are not there for fun.
18:36 @<henne> the frontend part is, the backend not
18:37 @<henne> we are working on that
18:37 <Tsuroerusu> henne: Sounds cool
18:37 @<henne> any more questions?
18:37 <houghi> You can still build MPlayer with the source as always.
18:37 <bgerber> Any date on backend?
18:37 @<henne> adrianS?
18:37 <bgerber> or Guesstement?
18:38 <darix> bgerber: when its done!
18:38 <adrianS> bgerber: I do not want say any date, all I can say that I have daily some mails about that issue :/
18:38 <Tsuroerusu> adrianS: After the 10.1 delay-story, you never know what can happen :P
18:38 @<henne> and you send some hopefully too ;)
18:38 <aka_druid_> Tsuroerusu: indeed
18:38 <adrianS> henne: yes ...
18:39 @<henne> okay any more questions or can we close this meeting?
18:39 <k0da> henne, what about mailing list for russian team?
18:39 @<henne> k0da: on my TODO
18:39 <darix> Tsuroerusu: you can contribute anyway. api and webfrontend are opensource already
18:39 <Yamaraj> henne: General questions accepted too?
18:39 @<henne> ETA tomorrow or the day after
18:39 <k0da> henne, any dates?
18:39 @<henne> Yamaraj: sure
18:40 <Yamaraj> Are there any plans to implement faster and better init system; something like SMF or initng?
18:40 <Tsuroerusu> darix: I'm not a programmer, I'm more of a writer type of guy, example is at my blog :P
18:41 <darix> Tsuroerusu: documentation is lacking too. :p
18:41 <sPiN> bill-barrier is writing a qt frontend for the bs that will of course be OS as well
18:41 <k0da> henne, thx
18:41 <Tsuroerusu> darix: Hehe, I'll see what I can do on that, I did a section on the 3D drivers in a danish guide to SUSE 10.1 a friend of mine wrote
18:41 @<henne> Yamaraj: we worked on this already in the past and given the data that bootchart provides the issues are in a totally different place
18:41 * adrianS leaves good evening
18:42 <AJaeger> Yamaraj: We try to get the current system faster and any ideas are welcome for this. There's a lot you can do to speed up a single system - but doing this for a distribution is a lot harder.
18:42 <darix> adrianS: nooooooooooooooooo
18:42 <aka_druid_> its a shame jdd couldnt make it here
18:42 <Yamaraj> And IMHO, startup and shutdown times need to improve.
18:42 <darix> AJaeger: i am building an rpm of upstart (the new ubuntu thingie) while we speak. :)
18:42 <Tsuroerusu> AJaeger: Speaking of speeding up, how will the boot times be for 10.2? Better or worse than 10.1?
18:42 @<henne> Tsuroerusu: we will see
18:42 <benJIman> Tsuroerusu: most of the boot time is mounting reiser partitions
18:42 <Tsuroerusu> LOL
18:42 <AJaeger> darix: Any pointers?
18:43 <aka_druid_> henne: will it be blue or green?
18:43 <wns> any chance to get ndiswrapper-1.23 in 10.2?
18:43 @<henne> okay i would like to close this meeting
18:43 <benJIman> henne: may I ask a question?
18:43 <aka_druid_> I thought it was already doine heh
18:43 <AJaeger> Tsuroerusu: We have not run any comparisions AFAIK.
18:43 @<henne> benJIman: sure
18:43 <benJIman> can/when will we have some libzypp docs other than autogened doxygen ones?
18:44 <benJIman> some suse people say there are some, others say not, but whatever the case is we havn't got any here
18:44 <AJaeger> wns: Shouldn't be a problem but if this is not done until early october, please file a bug.
18:44 @<henne> benJIman: bugreport it and find out :)
18:44 <Yamaraj> Last, but not the least, please ensure that 10.2 is released only when it's ready. ;-)
18:44 <sPiN> amen to that.
18:44 @<henne> okay
18:44 <Tsuroerusu> Yamaraj: Yeah, but don't go Vista on us :P
18:44 <wns> AJaeger: will do
18:44 <darix> AJaeger: sure
18:45 <Yamaraj> Tsuroerusu: Don't worry. ;-)
18:45 @<henne> okay i will close this meeting now
18:45 <sPiN> vaporware is better than brokenware
18:45 <darix> AJaeger: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/77421 and http://www.netsplit.com/blog/work/canonical/upstart.html
18:45 @<henne> thank you all for participating
18:45 <darix> AJaeger: i have the mentioned initng as rpm aswell.
18:45 @<henne> the next openSUSE status meeting will take place on the 12th of september
18:45 <Poopsie> Any chances of getting support for the logitech G15 keyboard in 10.2? such as this http://www.waug.at/g15lcd/
18:45 @<henne> same time, same channel
18:46 <aka_druid_> not that boot time is killing my life anyway...
18:46 <Tsuroerusu> aka_druid: I never reboot anyway, what's the haps' with boot times anyway :P
18:46 <benJIman> darix: suse already starts all the services very fast, 90% of boot time with my system and is mounting reiser, same for most systems I think
18:46 @<henne> good night and good luck
18:46 <cthiel> byebye
18:46 <benJIman> initng won't help much
18:46 <cthiel> over and out
18:46 <Tsuroerusu> roger that
18:47 <benJIman> Thanks guys
18:47 <darix> benJIman: sysvinit has other problems ... like event based handling (re)starting services on events.
18:47 <darix> benJIman: service dependencies
18:47 <benJIman> darix: and initng has other problems
18:47 <Yamaraj> benJIman: Are there any benchmarks that prove that?
18:47 <darix> benJIman: i am aware of those.
18:47 <benJIman> Yamaraj: my own benchmarks on several machines
18:47 <darix> benJIman: in my spare time i try to port the init scripts to initng. :p wanna join?
18:48 <Yamaraj> benJIman: Good to know. See if you can provide some statistics someplace.
18:48 <Nix> Is the upstart rpm available for testing? in the BS?
18:48 <benJIman> Yamaraj: for example on my desktop with 1/2 terabyte of reiser it takes 2mins to boot with all drives connected, with only my raptor / drive connected it boots in 20s
18:48 <darix> Nix: i am just packaging there stuff ... it will hardly give you a running system
18:48 <benJIman> Yamaraj: I have bootcharts somewhere for afew machines
18:48 <Yamaraj> benJIman: fs mounting is definitely a bottleneck here.
18:48 <darix> benJIman: use xfs :p
18:49 <benJIman> Yamaraj: people complain suse is slow to boot, what they really mean is reiser is slow to mount
18:49 <benJIman> darix: mount time doesn't bother me, what bothers me is people assume it's suse being slow/bloated
18:49 <benJIman> reiser is perfect for my usage
18:49 <darix> benJIman: wanna help migrating suse init scripts to initng for testing?
18:49 <Yamaraj> benJIman: That's true. But then, SUSE defaults to reiser. :-P
18:49 <benJIman> darix: not sure initng is the right path to go, and as I said it will make little difference to boot speed for most people
--- Log closed Tue Aug 29 18:50:00 2006