--- Log opened Tue Jul 04 17:56:37 2006
17:57 <cthiel_> alright -- let's go..
17:58 <skh> moderated or not?
17:58 <cthiel_> it 1800, time to party ;)
17:58 <darix> as henne is not here today i will take this
17:58 <AJaeger> We can't have an IRC meeting without Henne ;-(
17:58 <skh> we can.
17:58 <darix> Welcome to the opensuse meeting. Today we will try without moderation!
17:58 <cthiel_> yay
17:58 darix is now known as henne2
17:58 <henne2> AJaeger: we can!;)
17:58 * AJaeger is relieved and happy...
17:59 Klaus [n=kssingvo@charybdis-ext.suse.de] has joined #opensuse
17:59 <henne2> points on the agenda:
17:59 <henne2> - status 10.2
17:59 <henne2> - translation wiki
17:59 <henne2> - build service (is adrian here?)
17:59 <henne2> - q&a
17:59 <henne2> AJaeger: wanna go first ?:)
17:59 <skh> I also have: -status wiki
17:59 <AJaeger> Yeah, I will.
17:59 <AJaeger> michl are you around?
18:00 PP_ [n=PP@cp79683-a.tilbu1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openSUSE
18:00 <AJaeger> Ok, let's start.
18:00 juha-observer [n=juvuori@dsl-aur-fe90dd00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #opensuse
18:00 <AJaeger> We're still working a bit on 10.1 - the next libzypp update and a kernel update are on the way - but
we also started preparing for 10.2.
18:01 michl [n=michl@p5493C43C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #opensuse
18:01 juha-observer [n=juvuori@dsl-aur-fe90dd00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #opensuse ["Kopete 0.10.3 : http://kopete.kde.org"]
18:01 tim_ [n=tim@150.Red-80-25-158.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openSUSE
18:01 <AJaeger> * Roadmap: We're finalizing the roadmap right now, 10.2 release will be most probably in mid-december.
We plan to do betas every other week instead of weekly. We have to slow down during our beta phase a bit more than
we did with 10.1.
18:02 <AJaeger> * Features: Michl and myself are looking at what features we will add to 10.2, here're some ideas:
18:02 <AJaeger> - libzypp improved: Faster and with less bugs ;-(
18:03 jpr [n=jpr@CPE00a0c56bef4b-CM001404dc9e04.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:03 <AJaeger> - the usual package updates to the latest and greatest version including GNOME 2.16, KDE 3.5.x
18:03 <michl> Mono 1.2
18:03 <Klaus> cups-1.2.x
18:03 juha-observer [n=juvuori@dsl-aur-fe90dd00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #opensuse
18:03 <AJaeger> - Yep to both - thanks ;-)
18:03 jpr [n=jpr@CPE00a0c56bef4b-CM001404dc9e04.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #opensuse
18:03 <michl> XEN enhancements
18:04 <AJaeger> - X.Org 11 R7.1 - the modular x.org
18:04 henne2 is now known as darix
18:04 <AJaeger> - We're also going through the feature lists on the wiki and will check what can be done for 10.2 - and
what needs more time...
18:04 <_Marcus_> gcc 4.2 for more power ... ;)
18:05 <Klaus> btw: vim-7.x is released now too.
18:05 <darix> (and available from the buildservice)
18:05 <AJaeger> - GCC 4.2 is not decided yet, we currently test how much work it will be...
18:05 * _Marcus_ hides under a rock.
18:05 <AJaeger> - we plan to start a couple of discussions soon on the opensuse-factory mailing list talking about features
18:06 <AJaeger> - Reorganization of our selections: Let's use patterns (more powerful, hierarchy) - and develop list
together
18:06 <AJaeger> - The big question is: What's your *one* favourite change?
18:06 <rajko_m> Put the question on list or wiki.
18:07 <skh> isn't this something for the main mailing list?
18:07 <cthiel_> how about yast2-gtk */me runs*
18:07 <skh> not -factory
18:07 <AJaeger> - we can have it on opensuse as well.
18:07 <skh> please do. large audience is better for this, I think.
18:07 <skh> is that AI aj, michl?
18:07 <cthiel_> and the other summer of code deliverables -- in case they are related to the distro.
18:07 <AJaeger> rajko_m: Yes, we'll do this via email.
18:08 <AJaeger> skh: AI: aj, michl
18:08 <michl> yes
18:08 <skh> noted, thanks.
18:08 <AJaeger> Any comments on this? Please keep in mind that most developers are taking vacations now - or watch the
worldcup ;-)
18:09 _lukasz [n=lukasz@ACCB03E6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #opensuse
18:09 <_Marcus_> we need to provide stability first with 10.2
18:09 <_Marcus_> and less ZMD / zypp slowness
18:09 <AJaeger> _Marcus_: Libzypp - or other areas as well?
18:09 CH8yoS1 [n=harry@62-99-150-66.static.adsl-line.inode.at] has quit ["-off"]
18:09 <_Marcus_> zypp mostly
18:10 <cthiel_> integration with the build service will be a hot topic...
18:10 <_Marcus_> better handling of buildservice repos, like KDE: / GNOME: I guess
18:10 <AJaeger> _Marcus_: Yes, that'S the priority: Make it stable and then make it fast without breaking stability :-)
18:11 houghi [n=houghi@082-146-105-067.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be] has joined #opensuse
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18:11 <AJaeger> Should we move on to the next topic?
18:11 <skh> I got a question for ppc, I'm not sure if we can answer it here: what about support for really old (NuBus) and
fairly old (G3) Macs?
18:11 <skh> reportedly 10.1 doesn't work on these.
18:11 <skh> aj: any comment?
18:12 <AJaeger> We will not do much ourselves. But if the code is upstream in the kernel, or we get fixes for yast
packages, we will consider it (before anybody starts: ask ;-).
18:12 <skh> ok, any more questions?
18:12 <darix> skh: are there other distros supporting it?
18:13 <darix> like ubuntu, debian, fedora?
18:13 <skh> darix: I have a gut feeling debian does
18:13 <skh> but I don't know for sure
18:13 <darix> would be interesting to know if it is really worth
18:13 <rajko_m> More about paterns, where can be found?
18:14 <skh> well, the hardware is around and needs an OS. I think if there's effort from the community we should consider
it, but I don't see the resources at suse at the moment.
18:14 <AJaeger> rajko_m: I'll first prepare a wiki page and then start a discussion. It's selections improved.
18:14 <darix> skh: agreed
18:15 <darix> next point?
18:15 <skh> yes, go ahead
18:15 <darix> - status wiki/translation wiki
18:15 <darix> skh: as martin is not here i guess you will take that?:)
18:15 <skh> I have a status from localhorst
18:16 <skh> - on my 2do list:
18:16 <skh> -- vi wiki (this week roll-out)
18:16 _Hannibal [n=arch@as-35-05.lns2-4c.kharkov.ukrtel.net] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
18:16 <skh> (that's vietnamese, not the editor ;-))
18:16 <skh> -- ru wiki (this week roll-out (lets say 70% sure i can finish it))
18:16 <skh> one word about new wikis: the language maintainers decide when to announce the
18:16 <skh> new wiki, so roll-out means it's available from the outside but maybe not
18:16 <skh> 100% finished. Some minor stuff we can't do because we only speak german and
18:16 <skh> some kind of english :-)
18:16 <skh> - Future stuff:
18:16 <skh> -- cz SDB article convert
18:16 <skh> -- translation wikibot
18:16 <skh> -- clean up wiki (maybe before bot)
18:16 <skh> -- vacation!
18:17 <skh> darix, anything to add to that from your side?
18:17 <darix> i would like to add a few points
18:17 <michl> is chinese out now?
18:17 <skh> yes
18:17 <skh> should be
18:17 <darix> michl: sure.
18:17 Tobias__ [n=chatzill@tux.ph2.uni-koeln.de] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006052700]"]
18:17 <darix> - wiki skin rewrite is nearly done. Who could believe we still have 8-10% IE5 users.
18:18 <darix> Frank and me are testing it in all kind of old browsers
18:18 <darix> i hope we can roll that out on thursday aswell
18:18 <cboltz> including netscape 4? *SCNR*
18:18 <darix> cboltz: we are not that insane
18:19 <skh> will people notice the new skin, i.e. are there graphical changes?
18:19 <darix> regarding the translation wiki. - i more or less like that idea. i will look into it.
18:19 <rajko_m> thanks
18:19 <darix> skh: minor ones. but they will notice the fixed category pages ^^
18:20 <skh> I have a statement regarding the translation wiki from martin too:
18:20 <skh> - I'm not sure about the benefits from this (beside cleanup of en wiki), but
18:20 <skh> when people think it makes it easier ... i had no time to really read the
18:20 <skh> discussion on the list, but will do.
18:20 <skh> - The whole translation mess will be hopefully cleaned up a little bit when we
18:20 <skh> have a bot. I had not really time to look into the bots which are available,
18:20 <skh> so if you have some experience with it let me know.
18:21 <darix> i am still not sure the bot will be really helpful. i can dump a few links from wikipedia discussions
18:21 <skh> darix: can you explain what a translation bot would do?
18:21 <darix> eg. you can get incorrect mappings due automatic updates
18:21 <darix> skh: the idea was a bot is traversing the whole wiki collects all interwiki links
18:22 metamorphousthe [n=metamorp@CPE0040f4ac8b69-CM000a73a86ba8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:22 <darix> and adds missing links to the other pages
18:22 <skh> ok, I remember now. sounds helpful to me, what's the issue?
18:22 <darix> but it can happen that the spanish maintainer mapped a page to en:foo and the french maintainer the same
content to en:bar
18:22 <darix> stuff like that
18:22 <darix> i will post a summary about that to the list
18:22 <skh> ok.
18:23 <darix> we had lengthy discussions with the doc team about all that.
18:23 <skh> -> opensuse-wiki then.
18:23 <darix> any more wiki questions?
18:23 <skh> there was one more:
18:24 <skh> - OpenSUSE front page redesign? What is happening?
18:24 <darix> i cant comment on that.
18:24 <skh> is there anybody here who can discuss the front page redesign effort?
18:24 <darix> is there any real proposal now?
18:24 <bgerber> example skins to play with to further this effort
18:24 <rajko_m> yes
18:24 <darix> bgerber: you dont need to redesign the wiki skin
18:25 <darix> for a new content layout on the frontpage
18:25 <darix> those are 2 distinct areas more or less
18:25 <darix> rajko_m: url?
18:25 lukasz [n=lukasz@AC8E2F07.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:25 <darix> url to the implemented frontpage proposal
18:26 gjn [n=gjn@85-125-25-115.static.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #opensuse
18:26 <darix> rajko_m: you answered "yes2 on my question. :)
18:27 <darix> hmm
18:27 <bgerber> I think it was to my request for example skins
18:27 <skh> ok, as long as nobody working on the front page redesign turns up in this meeting we won't get any further
18:27 <darix> bgerber: after weeks of work we have put into that skin. i am not fan of changing it again.
18:28 <rajko_m> that's OK
18:28 <darix> bgerber: putting energy into a layout of the content on the frontpage is more useful
18:28 <skh> I'll mention that in the minutes and send a note to opensuse-wiki ;-)
18:28 <darix> but it seems we are still in the "lets talk about it" stage :(
18:28 <darix> skh: thanks
18:28 <skh> oh well.
18:28 <darix> skh: well?
18:28 <skh> next topic ;-)
18:28 <darix> buildservice?
18:28 <darix> adrianS_?
18:29 houghi [n=houghi@082-146-105-067.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be] has quit ["leaving"]
18:29 <skh> adrianS is excused (World Cup)
18:29 _Hannibal [n=arch@as-35-05.lns2-4c.kharkov.ukrtel.net] has joined #opensuse
18:29 <darix> skh: i can say it works great and it is pushing out packages to the wild. :) KDE updates. Gnome will
follow soon.
18:30 <darix> many former ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/projects are moving to the buildservice.
18:30 <skh> darix: are you working with the command line client?
18:30 <darix> skh: osc? yes.
18:30 <skh> adrian mentioned that it sort-of can do local builds now
18:30 <darix> uhm
18:30 <darix> it is work in progress
18:30 <cthiel_> skh: that's pretty much work in progress ;9
18:30 <jpr> gnome should be in the not too distant future, we want to do both a stable and unstable project for gnome
18:30 }-Tux-{ [n=marcus@p83.129.11.132.tisdip.tiscali.de] has joined #opensuse
18:31 <skh> cthiel: ok, thanks.
18:31 <darix> jpr: hehe i poke every gnome guy i see :)
18:31 <jpr> stanislav and gary and i are meeting to morrow
18:31 <darix> my personally biggest project is Ruby (http://en.opensuse.org/Ruby)
18:31 <jpr> then i want to talk to james ogley
18:31 <AJaeger> jpr: In person?
18:31 <jpr> and a couple other people in the community
18:31 <jpr> AJaeger: no, phone
18:31 <darix> with Ruby on Rails and many other useful libraries
18:31 <AJaeger> jpr: Ah - stanislav is on vacation this week, so hope he shows up ;-)
18:32 <jpr> yah, i know
18:32 <skh> cthiel: do you have any status on the iChain work?
18:32 <jpr> he said he would make an exception
18:32 <cthiel_> skh: no, I don't -- talk to Klaas...
18:32 <skh> cthiel: I know, but you are here, Klaas is not...
18:33 <cthiel_> skh: IIUC Klaas is blocked with other stuff ATM
18:33 <cboltz> what about creating yast-style metadata for SUSE 9.3 which doesn't work with yum metadata (#181625,
no response yet)? It shouldn't be too hard to implement...
18:34 <darix> skh: regarding build: the build package and y2pmbuild(from y2pmsh) can already do local biulds.
18:34 <darix> builds
18:34 <skh> darix: I know.
18:34 <darix> skh: just for the record. :)
18:34 <skh> darix: ok ;-)
18:34 <skh> darix: they can't do deb packages.
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18:35 <cthiel_> darix: they can't...
18:35 <darix> skh: no comment.
18:35 <darix> cthiel_: works well for me. :)
18:35 <cthiel_> darix: at least not without lots of dirty hacks...
18:35 <darix> no dirty hacks needed. :)
18:35 <cthiel_> darix: ok, go and create a howto...
18:35 <cthiel_> ;)
18:36 <skh> darix: people start drooling over deb packages, whether we like it or not, so this feature would be
highly desirable
18:36 <cthiel_> cboltz: it shouldn't be to hard to create yast2 metadata... is that bug assigend to mls?
18:36 <skh> (over being able to build rpm and deb from roughly the same sources)
18:36 <cboltz> cthiel_: it's assigned to Adrian.
18:36 <darix> skh: very roughly the same .... yeah
18:36 <cboltz> Should I reassign?
18:37 <skh> darix: I'm aware of the problem
18:37 <aka_druid_> skh: deb ppl will like debs packaged by deb ppl. I dont see this demand you are talkin about
18:37 <darix> adrian is a good place for it. imho
18:37 <cthiel_> cboltz: let adrian decide ;)
18:37 <cthiel_> cboltz: but add mls to cc...
18:37 <darix> skh: but atm we dont generate apt sources either. WIP aswell :)
18:37 <skh> aka_druid: people who just want to build for as many linux distributions as possible, without specific
project affiliation.
18:38 <cboltz> [x] done
18:38 <darix> aka_druid_: we have a few projects, using the buildservice as their official binary distribution source
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18:38 <darix> at least they are working on it
18:38 <darix> :)
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18:38 <darix> more buildservice questions?
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18:38 <cboltz> Will the sources for older distributions (9.3, 10.0, 10.1) be uploaded to the build service? This would
be required for creating "linked" packages from these distributions.
18:38 <cboltz> The current workaround is to manually upload the sources for every package, but this can become annoying...
18:39 <cboltz> There was also the idea to provide some update packages for minor bugs from community members - this would
be much easier with the sources uploaded
18:39 <darix> cboltz: uhmm what are you trying to do?
18:39 humbolt [n=hugo@213-147-185-150.ADSL.ycn.com] has joined #opensuse
18:39 <cboltz> for example courier-authlib-mysql ;-)
18:39 <humbolt> does anybody know if I can mix SLED and opensuse?
18:39 <darix> i mean if the package is already in the old distro... why link it? (besides... it will be possible to link
packages from old distros)
18:40 <cboltz> (without a version change, I need it for a _stable_ system ;-)
18:40 <humbolt> or if this will screw up my sytem?
18:40 <skh> humboldt: we're in an openSUSE status meeting right now, please ask again later ;-)
18:40 <darix> and you cant mix a distro and a project. ;)
18:40 <cthiel_> humbolt: yes, you can -- with 10.1...
18:40 <humbolt> basically I want to install win32 codes and so forth from opensuse
18:40 <skh> folks, please stay on topic
18:40 <darix> humbolt: you mix up stuff. and as skh said. meeting time. :)
18:41 <cthiel_> humbolt: ... will most likely work. but we are in a "meeting" right now ;)
18:41 <cboltz> darix: what about "link it + add a patch"?
18:41 <darix> humbolt: we dont provide win32 codecs
18:41 <darix> cboltz: that already works.
18:41 <cboltz> yes, if the sources are in the build service. They weren't when I tried last time...
18:41 <humbolt> darix: where did I have them from then, when I tested 10.1?
18:41 <darix> cboltz: WIP.
18:41 <darix> humbolt: PLEASE
18:41 <cboltz> OK
18:42 <darix> any more build service related questions?
18:43 <darix> cboltz: btw: if you do courier stuff server:mail might be a good place to move to. :)
18:43 NV_The_Riper [n=NV_The_R@ADijon-256-1-109-163.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:43 <skh> ok, next topic?
18:43 <darix> Q&A
18:43 <cboltz> The best place would be to do it in the SUSE package (it's a spec file change only)
18:43 <skh> the small footprint question.
18:43 <skh> bgerber, that was yours
18:44 <darix> bgerber: who small?
18:44 <darix> err
18:44 <darix> how small
18:44 <darix> :)
18:44 <darix> smaller than my 266MHZ P2 with 192MB ram?
18:44 <bgerber> 64M-128
18:44 <darix> bgerber: you know about MicroSUSE i hope?:)
18:45 dries [n=dries@kotnet-147.kulnet.kuleuven.be] has joined #opensuse
18:45 <skh> the question was if there is interest to do a separate version of SUSE Linux if I recall correctly?
18:45 <darix> skh: i dont see the need. except a small package manager
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18:45 <darix> smart and zypp are not memory friendly
18:45 <rajko_m> probably
18:45 <AJaeger> bgerber: With current libzypp I do not see much changes to install with that little memory :-(
18:46 <skh> darix: I don't know. For me the question is also, in what way could we support such a project (which might
have a similar scope like SLICK had)
18:46 <skh> this would basically be a derivative distribution
18:46 <bgerber> yes
18:46 <rajko_m> skh:little more modest
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18:47 <bgerber> maybe a knopix/ Live DVD install to existing partition
18:47 <darix> bgerber: can you give a few points you would change? (except package management)
18:47 <skh> the build service should be able to help there, but at the moment, you'd probably have to build the
distribution yourself
18:47 <bgerber> I was hoping for advise from existing ...
18:48 <skh> Why not propose it on the mailing list?
18:48 <darix> bgerber: it highly depends on the goals you had in mind.
18:48 <humbolt> about mixing distros SLED, SLES and openSuSE? Does that work, is that supposed to work, is that the
predefined way to get apache and so forth on SLED?
18:48 <darix> humbolt: NOT NOW. THANKS
18:48 <humbolt> how long is the meeting?
18:48 <darix> i wont say it again.
18:48 <bgerber> I will email mailing list
18:48 <darix> humbolt: until i say "it is over"
18:48 <darix> bgerber: it would be good to define a few project goals
18:49 <skh> darix: I like the idea actually
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18:49 <darix> bgerber: do you aim for routers? desktops? think clients?
18:49 <darix> stuff like that
18:49 <bgerber> we have a lot of students with these type of computers learning linux
18:50 <bgerber> I want to make them SUSE converts
18:50 <darix> bgerber: sure... i would use them as thin clients. netboot and use a fat box as application server
18:50 <darix> ltsp with linux
18:50 <skh> -> opensuse@opensuse.org?
18:51 <darix> i would write a wiki page first and post the link to the ml.
18:51 <darix> :)
18:51 <skh> or just stay and discuss it here after the meeting ;-)
18:51 <skh> don't want to cut you off
18:51 <bgerber> OK
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18:51 <rajko_m> bgerber:can you see SLICK on opensuse.org
18:51 frederico [n=frederic@201.64.41.107] has joined #opensuse
18:52 <skh> that's the end of the official agenda, are there any more questions?
18:52 <darix> rajko_m: last time i checked they declared themself dead and they were starting slick2
18:53 <cboltz> Do you have an idea when/if a bugzilla mailinglist will be setup? (#160835, but it's really silent
there :-( )
18:53 <bgerber> thanks I have the ideas I needed to get this started
18:53 * cthiel_ is off for the world cup -- ole, ole ole ole...!
18:53 NV_The_Riper [n=NV_The_R@ADijon-256-1-109-163.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #opensuse
18:53 <skh> cthiel: wait
18:53 <cthiel_> skh: why?
18:53 <skh> cthiel: the bugzilla mailing list - do you have any news?
18:53 <darix> cboltz: when tom tom is convinced about his security/privacy concerns?:)
18:54 <cboltz> forget tom tom - I consider him a troll...
18:54 <cthiel_> skh: no -- but I have to admit I didn't talk to the bugzilla guys yet.
18:54 <skh> cthiel: can you maybe do that? ;-)
18:54 <darix> cthiel_: if i recall correctly they were not to much fan of this.
18:54 <cthiel_> skh: it's on my agenda... ;)
18:54 <skh> ok.
18:54 <skh> sorry to keep you ;-)
18:54 <cthiel_> no worries...
18:54 <skh> so that's still WIP
18:55 <cboltz> cthiel_: I'll call #160835 your AI ;-)
18:55 <cthiel_> cboltz: yes, it's assigend to me, so it's an AI ;)
18:55 <darix> ok skh, who will win? what score?:)
18:55 <cthiel_> I'll try to address this soon...
18:55 <skh> germany after penalties.
18:55 <cthiel_> germany will prevail ;)
18:56 <skh> and a horrible game, we will suffer.
18:56 <skh> score? 5:3 in penalities, 0:0 before
18:56 <bgerber> Is there an internet source to watch it?
18:56 <darix> skh: 1:1 before
18:56 <cthiel_> bgerber: http://www.ascii-wm.net/ ;)
18:57 * cthiel_ is off...
18:57 adsad [n=adas@S0106000423a591d7.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #opensuse
18:57 <darix> more questions?
18:57 <skh> do we call it a day, or are there any more questions?
18:57 <adsad> Anybody know what the migration process is in sles?
18:57 <darix> adsad: wrong place to ask. wrong time to ask.
18:57 <darix> :)
18:58 <skh> darix: close it.
18:58 jdanield [n=jdd@dodin.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:58 <adsad> why
18:58 minciNashu [n=mincinas@86.105.144.90] has left #opensuse []
18:58 <darix> meeting is over!:)
18:58 <skh> adsad: support questions belong to #suse.
18:58 ofniet [n=g7142aex@ip503c368e.speed.planet.nl] has quit []
18:58 <darix> adsad: no SLES support on irc in general. and SUSE support questions in #suse. and we had meeting time. ;)
--- Log closed Tue Jul 04 18:58:46 2006